Another Rib Question?

[sigmasmokers]

I have learned the 3-2-1 method for ribs on this site but what is the concensus on what you do when you wrap your ribs. I have seen to spray them down good, but do any of you sauce them when wrapping and then again when finishing them back on the fire out of the foil?

[chad]

Most of us probably just spray with juice or mop since we tend to serve the ribs "dry" with sauce on the side. If you are going to serve the ribs wet there's no reason to not sauce them when you foil.

However, during the final -1 if you're over a hot fire or flames the red sauces will burn. If you just put them back in the 250 cooker it's not a problem.

[sigmasmokers]

I am asking more for competitions than anything. I assume you are not since you cannot serve sauce on the side. Do you mind offering you advice for competitions?

[Arlin_MacRae]

I spray them heavily before wrapping them, so they can steam a little, then pull them out for the last hour or so, sauce them lightly, and let the sauce carmelize. Yummy.

[chad]

I don't use 3-2-1 at competition. It's guaranteed to overcook the ribs.

It's more a 2-2 and check 'em or a 3-whatever in foil. If the rack is bending and passes Phil's toothpick test I just spray and hold 'em. I always shoot for the 5 hour window (that way it's almost impossible for them to be undercooked!) but wind up hold for at least a couple of hours.

I usually glaze the ribs as we prep the box. We are considering starting to use more sauce. You could still sauce in the foil but it would be a bit messy at the prep table.

Another thing Tim and I have deciced: when in doubt overcook! We've seen more problems with tough meat (underdone but not under cooked or unsafe!!) than with over done. The exception might be brisket since the judges are going to have the slice fall apart while they try to pick it up. Ribs - you may lose points for fall off the bone but not as much as with tough ribs -- ****this is just my opinion and what I've observed***

[sigmasmokers]

When you say "hold em" does this mean just keep them foiled and coolered until ready to cut and box?

[Solidkick]

When you say "hold em" does this mean just keep them foiled and coolered until ready to cut and box?

I believe so.....

I don't spray real heavy when I wrap........seems others do. I sauce after unwrapping and reintroducing to the smoke.

Chad is right that 3-2-1 will not get you competition turn in ribs. 2-2 and start checking the bones.....need a slight tug.

[G$]

Help me out a bit, maybe elaborate. Bear in mind we are speaking generalities:

If 3-2-1 is 'about right' at home, why is it preferable to go distinctly shorter at competition? This seems to directly contradict the other statement that "when in doubt overcook". Since both kick and the DF seem to agree "that 3-2-1 will not get you competition" quality, what am i missing? Is it a case of simply more time under foil or am I missing something else? Thanks.

[Solidkick]

KCBS judges tend to look for a slight "tug" of the meat separating from the bone.

3-2-1 tends to give you "fall off the bone" ribs, which is fine for home, but won't score as well at competition.

Chad will have to explain his thought...........

[chad]

"hold 'em" means just that - whatever it takes to keep 'em "right" for turn-in. Sometimes the dry cooler - sometimes a warm spot on/in the cooker, sometimes under foil and sitting in a sunny spot!! I can't define it more than that because it varies from time to time.

[chad]

Help me out a bit, maybe elaborate. Bear in mind we are speaking generalities:

If 3-2-1 is 'about right' at home, why is it preferable to go distinctly shorter at competition? This seems to directly contradict the other statement that "when in doubt overcook". Since both kick and the DF seem to agree "that 3-2-1 will not get you competition" quality, what am i missing? Is it a case of simply more time under foil or am I missing something else? Thanks.

Sorry, didn't mean to confuse! 3-2-1 is guaranteed fall off the bone and usually a rather abysmal score if having to turn them in.

Choosing overcooked vs undercooked are relative to competition. Slightly overcooked will not be quite fall off the bone but you certainly don't want the judge to shake it!! :D Undercooked is not unsafe but is definately not that "tug" to get it off the bone - more like it needs to be knawed on! In this case the judge will tend to cut some slack on the slightly overdone and hammer the "tough" ribs (at least that's the effect this has on me as a judge).

This leads to the membrane issue. I always remove the membrane in competition. It's not worth the worry and you cannot remove the membrane from a cooked rib without farking up the rib. At home, this doesn't matter so do as you please! :D I remove the membrane at home too because I think (note: THINK/Believe) it improves the ribs. Again, opinions vary and they are like ******* - we all have 'em. :D

These are judgement calsl that competitors make every time they go out. At home I don't sweat it and just head for 3-2-1 - though I usually do something like a 2-2 or a 3-2 and eat!! Other times I will hold the ribs and then sauce 'em and put 'em back on the fire. My wife prefers sauced, or wet, ribs and so that's how I make them for her.

It's all relative to what you like at home. In competition we're looking for the "perfect" rib in relation to what the judges expect. For the record FBA judges are trained nearly identically to KCBS - same criteria for the meats, etc. Biggest difference is the demon lettuce!! No ambiguity in FBA - absolutely NO garnish allowed in the box. :D

[MrSmoker]

"hold 'em" means just that - whatever it takes to keep 'em "right" for turn-in. Sometimes the dry cooler - sometimes a warm spot on/in the cooker, sometimes under foil and sitting in a sunny spot!! I can't define it more than that because it varies from time to time. I guess thats what seperates the Men from the Boy's :wink:

[chad]

I'm just trying to get a payday!! :D

[nmayeux]

As the newbie, will someone point me to the 3-2-1 method as I like fall off the bone, and I can't stay sober long enough to compete!!!
Noah

[The_Kapn]

As the newbie, will someone point me to the 3-2-1 method as I like fall off the bone, and I can't stay sober long enough to compete!!!
Noah
Noah-
Take a look at the "Road Map" at the top of Q-Talk.
Scroll down a bit for "pork ribs" by Scott (KCQuer)

TIM

[G$]

some awesome stuff about competition ribs and judging expectations .... with a lot of :D s




Thanks for all that.

Relative to other meat, I smoke less ribs. When I do, they seem to have more "hold" than what others often describe achieving. Although I feel like I am letting them go long enough, perhaps they could use more time. The upside is, I may be turning out competition quality ribs inadvertantly. ok, maybe not ......

[BBQchef33]

Heres a few things just to add or clarify.

3-2-1 is for spares or St. Louis cuts. Baby backs get 2-1-1 or some rendition of that. Sometimes a BB rack may go for 5 but that last hour should always be in a hold.

The requirement for KCBS ribs is for the meat to be firm and still attached to the bone. When you bite, just the bite, not the entire rib, should remove cleanly from the bone with a gentle tug. If you want to get real technical, the bone should form "sweat droplets" shorlty after removal of the meat, and then reabsorb them a few seconds later. Ribs we make at home have the bones fall out just by shaking the rack. 8).

The window to create those perfect ribs(according to kcbs judging standards) is small compared to the window to over cook and jsut let them get more and more tender. Competition tests your ability to hit that window without overshooting.



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Think this thread should be moved to the competition forum. If any moderators agree, feel free to move it.

[BrooklynQ]

The requirement for KCBS ribs is for the meat to be firm and still attached to the bone. When you bite, just the bite, not the entire rib, should remove cleanly from the bone with a gentle tug. If you want to get real technical, the bone should form "sweat droplets" shorlty after removal of the meat, and then reabsorb them a few seconds later.

The window to create those perfect ribs(according to kcbs judging standards) is small compared to the window to over cook and jsut let them get more and more tender. Competition tests your ability to hit that window without overshooting.

Think this thread should be moved to the competition forum. If any moderators agree, feel free to move it.

I'm not a moderator, but I'm taking it further down the competition road.

What you said about the tug and sweat was what I was taught in class as well.

But...

To the best of my knowledge, as a KCBSCJ, there is no requirement to serve the rib meat ON the bone. In theory, one could make fall off the bone, tender ribs and serve the MEAT only. Maybe pulled rib meat could be the new thing at contests!

[BBQchef33]

True, and there is also no requirment to have lettuce. So lets turn in boneless ribs with no lettuce or parsley and see how we do. :twisted: :wink:

[BrooklynQ]

Ya know Phil, if i was an established champion, I would do that just to see what happens.

[Neil]

This thread has been,in the immortal words of Arte Johnson, "verrrrrrry interesting".

[sigmasmokers]

This may be crossing the line into "Secret" stuff, but do any of you experienced competative cookers have a good estimate on how long your BBRs and Spares will cook at competition that you are willing to share. I know a lot could change while you are out there and you might have to adjust but I'm sure you get your ribs on the smoke at the same time every competition for a 12:30 turn it. What you do with it from there I know can change. Any suggestions..

[chad]

With a 12:30 turn-in the St. Louis cut spare ribs would go in a ready-to-go cooker (no waiting on the fire, etc) NLT 7:00am. That allows me lots of time for variables.

Loinback ribs - NLT 8 a.m.

[sigmasmokers]

Thanks

[Bigdog]

This may be crossing the line into "Secret" stuff, but do any of you experienced competative cookers have a good estimate on how long your BBRs and Spares will cook at competition that you are willing to share. I know a lot could change while you are out there and you might have to adjust but I'm sure you get your ribs on the smoke at the same time every competition for a 12:30 turn it. What you do with it from there I know can change. Any suggestions..

We don't have no stinkin' "secret stuff" around here. For that all you have to do is take a class from someone like Paul Kirk.