History of BBQ questions

[Smoking Piney]

Age old discussion that will continue for ages.

opcorn:

 

[horizon23]

My basic research quoted above was only limited to where BBQ in the New World had it's roots; it's the basis for introduction of my "smoking meat" culinary classes.


Yes, peccaries were used for food in the Mayan Culture. Peccaries evolved in Europe about 30 million years ago and spread across much of the world. In the Old World, peccaries went extinct, but they survived in North America. About three million years ago, peccaries spread into South America.


I don't think the roasting of meat can be attributed to any single culture, as "Horizon 23" stated above; "we should look at the Neanderthal as the first to cook with fire."

Archeologists have confirmed that since man was first able to harness and control fire, he used it for roasting and cooking of food. All before the recording of any attempts of ethnic civilization.

When I was researching the curing of meat for another class, I found that The domestication of pigs for use as food in China dates back to about 4900 B.C.. By 1500 B.C. the domestication of pigs had made its way into Europe.

According to written records we know that in 1493 Christopher Columbus had eight pigs on board when he left Spain for the new world and landed in Cuba.

In 1539 Hernando de Soto the explorer transported 13 pigs to the new world and released them in what we know today as Florida. It is believed that these pigs became the breeding stock for the pigs in the United States. By the 17th century, many American colonists were raising domesticated pigs.

But I thought the OP was talking about BBQ in the fledgling colonial nation; If I misread his inquiry, I apologize.

I was talking about BBQ in the New World. You were right.

Also are you saying domesticated pigs only got to Europe around 1500 BC (from China?). That seems a bit off on the dates and vector of spread.

-Pigs were domesticated around 8500 B.C in Turkey and they made their way to Europe during the migration of Neolithic famers from Anatolia to Europe. The European Neolithic starts 6500 B.C and ends in 1500 B.C.
-European pigs (besides those in Italy, Spain and Hungary) haven't preserved much of the original Middle Eastern pig genes. Most European pigs are hybridized with and trace most of their ancestry to European wild boars. It is interesting that the three countries that have pigs with the most Middle Eastern genes are well known for the flavor of their pork as well as pork dishes.
-During the 18th century some European pig populations were mixed with East Asian pig populations.

 

[shares]

There's no such thing as cultural appropriation. It's woke nonsense. The roots of BBQ can be tracked much further back from antebellum or even US shores.

 

[horizon23]

There's no such thing as cultural appropriation. It's woke nonsense. The roots of BBQ can be tracked much further back from antebellum or even US shores.

Ironically the guy who is pushing this viewpoint is named Michael Twitty. Twit indeed.

 

[thedude9999]

I have a Canadian friend who used to throw her lobster sandwiches in the garbage on her way to school because she would be embarrassed if her friends found out she was eating such trash. She's in her 40s. That's not that long ago!

Probably an East Coster, right? It’s plentiful and not very special out that way. McDonalds out East has/had a McLobster even.

 

[WilliamKY]

Not sure the origins of BBQ. It's a global thing as mentioned. As far as BBQ in the US is concerned I definitely think slaves played a large part in it's evolution as we know it. I read that ribs and neck bones were thrown out. Brisket was too tough to mess with. Things like gizzards and livers were unappetizing and tossed. Chickens were easy to steal and go unnoticed. Now you take slaves who were malnourished and bordering starvation and they will get very innovative with what they got or what they can get. Did you know when the Union armies marched across the south they spared thousands of acres of black eyed peas because they thought it was grown for livestock feed. Yet folks in the south, especially slaves had been eating black eyed peas for many years. Just like they found ways to make discarded meat a delicacy. BBQ is such an intriguing subject but it's origin has to be around the time of fire and Neanderthals. It's very old.

 

[horizon23]

Not sure the origins of BBQ. It's a global thing as mentioned. As far as BBQ in the US is concerned I definitely think slaves played a large part in it's evolution as we know it. I read that ribs and neck bones were thrown out. Brisket was too tough to mess with. Things like gizzards and livers were unappetizing and tossed. Chickens were easy to steal and go unnoticed. Now you take slaves who were malnourished and bordering starvation and they will get very innovative with what they got or what they can get. Did you know when the Union armies marched across the south they spared thousands of acres of black eyed peas because they thought it was grown for livestock feed. Yet folks in the south, especially slaves had been eating black eyed peas for many years. Just like they found ways to make discarded meat a delicacy. BBQ is such an intriguing subject but it's origin has to be around the time of fire and Neanderthals. It's very old.

I thought brisket was a central TX thing. Smoked brisket was also often sold alongside pastrami and smoked whitefish salad at jewish places I believe.

 

[SweetHeatBBQnSC]

Not sure the origins of BBQ. It's a global thing as mentioned. As far as BBQ in the US is concerned I definitely think slaves played a large part in it's evolution as we know it. I read that ribs and neck bones were thrown out. Brisket was too tough to mess with. Things like gizzards and livers were unappetizing and tossed. Chickens were easy to steal and go unnoticed. Now you take slaves who were malnourished and bordering starvation and they will get very innovative with what they got or what they can get. Did you know when the Union armies marched across the south they spared thousands of acres of black eyed peas because they thought it was grown for livestock feed. Yet folks in the south, especially slaves had been eating black eyed peas for many years. Just like they found ways to make discarded meat a delicacy. BBQ is such an intriguing subject but it's origin has to be around the time of fire and Neanderthals. It's very old.

This sounds a lot more accurate. Slavery didn't bring BBQ to the U.S. but I don't doubt for a minute they helped it greatly evolve.

 

[horizon23]

This sounds a lot more accurate. Slavery didn't bring BBQ to the U.S. but I don't doubt for a minute they helped it greatly evolve.

I'm not sure I understand the poor cuts of meat narrative. Wasn't the original BBQ (either from Spanish contact with Native Americans) or later colonial period BBQ usually whole hog?

 

[shares]

I'm not sure I understand the poor cuts of meat narrative. Wasn't the original BBQ (either from Spanish contact with Native Americans) or later colonial period BBQ usually whole hog?

Poor cuts of meant meaning that that the house would get the good, tender cuts of meat, while the enslaved were given the tough cuts to cook on their own. They learned how to convert the tough cuts into tender and delicious delights - the essence of BBQ.

 

[Gore]

Probably an East Coaster, right? It’s plentiful and not very special out that way. McDonalds out East has/had a McLobster even.

A Newf actually, of course her classmates all had cod. Not sure how much of the audience here would understand that aspect. Surprisingly, McLobsters are some of the best lobster sandwiches I've had.

 

[scp]

Not sure about other areas but KC BBQ started in 1907 with Henry Perry...which was the predecessor to Arthur Byant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Perry_(restaurateur)

 

[horizon23]

Is the oft repeated story of German butchers creating central tx bbq true?

 

[horizon23]

I guess I am most curious in who invented brick pits, offsetsmokers an was smart enough to add ketchup and/or mustard to the sauces?

 

[-Chris-]

Is the oft repeated story of German butchers creating central tx bbq true?

There is a massive German and Eastern Europe influence in TX bbq especially the sausages are very similar to the Polish kielbasa I ate growing up.

What I am not sure about, is there a history of smoking whole cuts of meat (beef) back in Europe? I don't think so other than smoking sausages. That seems to be an American thing.

The love roasting whole animals in brick ovens in Spain, in Barcelona specifically. Piglet, rabbit, maybe lamb as well.

Chris

 

[C Rocke]

BBQ = Appropriation...

Unbelievable, what's next?

 

[dsp2]

Thank you, sir, can I have another?