Brisket & probe tender question

[Fillmore Farmer]

I've always just pulled at 200F but since reading on the forum I've learned it's best to let temp be a guide and start probing at 190F...so I tried it. Until this point I've done about 10 briskets that were all very VERY good but like all of us I wanted to see if I could improve.....so I decided to trying probing.

I cook on a Vault and I like 235F because I can drop the meat at midnight, foil in the morning, pull around noon, rest, slice & serve for dinner. Yes, I'll try hot & fast but for now let's focus on the probe tender question cause I want to nail this concept.....

With this recent cook, at 190F I started probing, inserting a wooden skewer into the thickest part of the flat just underneath and a few inches away from the point...I got hard rubber just an inch in.

I continued to probe every 20 minutes. Let me cut to the chase....it got easier to insert the skewer but I never got the hot knife through butter. I inserted into the side going with the grain. I saw 194F, 197F, 202F and hours later up to 209F...the thinner portion of the flat probed like liquid but the thicker part remained NOT hot knife through butter. I pulled, let the temp drop 10 degrees, covered & rested for 2 hours.

When I went to slice (starting on the flat, opposite side of the point) the meat didn't want to slice, the outside was chunky, dry and the inside just fell apart. Further up the flat, getting closer to the point, the slicing got better but something was off....this brisket was over-cooked. WORST BRISKET EVER....I went from great results to newbie :twitch:

I reverted back to my former approach. I did 2 briskets for a recent event. My overnight temp may have gotten hot because by 8 hours I was at 193F when I went to foil. The smaller brisket had a nice jiggle while the other wasn't quite so soft. I went by gut feeling and feel (no probe)...I let it go another hour and when both had a nice soft jiggle I pulled, covered & rested for a couple hours....excellent results. They sliced nicely, lots of moisture, devoured and compliments by all.....

I'm baffled by the skewer probe, I'd rather just go by pressing into the meat and looking for a good jiggle. I was told the skewer should insert with virtually no resistance and I think this notion is whacked/wrong because the only time I ever got THAT kind of soft resistance came with mushy overcooked results. Now I'm thinking that probe tender means you don't have hard rubber trying to stop you...perhaps I should be looking for insertion with marginal resistance?

Either way, I'm getting a jiggle between 193F-202F...that really seems to be the temp window where it'll happen and I'm inclined to not porcupine my meat and just go by feel & jiggle in the future....yeah?

 

[smoke ninja]

Stick with what works for you.

I probe but also go by how it feels too. When you grab a done brisket it has a certain amount of flop to it, similar to a rib bend test. I combine the probe and bend to make my decision of when to pull.

 

[ebijack]

I'd suggest for another test, next one, cook to your feel point, then probe with a temp gauge or tooth pick. Quite a difference between a wooden skewer and a thinner probe. But I also don't consider the effort to be like butter, but more like peanut butter resistance. Probe tender is a wide difference just as is IT. Like Ninja, don't try to fix what ain't broke. Just another option.

 

[VoodoChild]

I've always just pulled at 200F but since reading on the forum I've learned it's best to let temp be a guide and start probing at 190F...so I tried it. Until this point I've done about 10 briskets that were all very VERY good but like all of us I wanted to see if I could improve.....so I decided to trying probing.

I cook on a Vault and I like 235F because I can drop the meat at midnight, foil in the morning, pull around noon, rest, slice & serve for dinner. Yes, I'll try hot & fast but for now let's focus on the probe tender question cause I want to nail this concept.....

With this recent cook, at 190F I started probing, inserting a wooden skewer into the thickest part of the flat just underneath and a few inches away from the point...I got hard rubber just an inch in.

I continued to probe every 20 minutes. Let me cut to the chase....it got easier to insert the skewer but I never got the hot knife through butter. I inserted into the side going with the grain. I saw 194F, 197F, 202F and hours later up to 209F...the thinner portion of the flat probed like liquid but the thicker part remained NOT hot knife through butter. I pulled, let the temp drop 10 degrees, covered & rested for 2 hours.

When I went to slice (starting on the flat, opposite side of the point) the meat didn't want to slice, the outside was chunky, dry and the inside just fell apart. Further up the flat, getting closer to the point, the slicing got better but something was off....this brisket was over-cooked. WORST BRISKET EVER....I went from great results to newbie :twitch:

I reverted back to my former approach. I did 2 briskets for a recent event. My overnight temp may have gotten hot because by 8 hours I was at 193F when I went to foil. The smaller brisket had a nice jiggle while the other wasn't quite so soft. I went by gut feeling and feel (no probe)...I let it go another hour and when both had a nice soft jiggle I pulled, covered & rested for a couple hours....excellent results. They sliced nicely, lots of moisture, devoured and compliments by all.....

I'm baffled by the skewer probe, I'd rather just go by pressing into the meat and looking for a good jiggle. I was told the skewer should insert with virtually no resistance and I think this notion is whacked/wrong because the only time I ever got THAT kind of soft resistance came with mushy overcooked results. Now I'm thinking that probe tender means you don't have hard rubber trying to stop you...perhaps I should be looking for insertion with marginal resistance?

Either way, I'm getting a jiggle between 193F-202F...that really seems to be the temp window where it'll happen and I'm inclined to not porcupine my meat and just go by feel & jiggle in the future....yeah?

I had the exact thoughts almost verbatim.. I cant explain but I go for probe -jiggle...Hard to explain but Just feels right both way usually 195-210 and all in between :blah::shock:

 

[IamMadMan]

My input to Fillmore Farmer is what caused him to go backwards in his cooking process, as I tried to explain probe tender with no real resistance to him.

I agree that probing until tender can be a learned experience, but once you get the the feel of it, you understand what you are feeling for. I think sometimes I just take for granted that the other person has some of the knowledge we posses.

I'm glad the feel and jiggle approach worked well for you and your briskets turned out great.

 

[1911Ron]

Do what works for you the best, i can honestly tell you i have no ides what my temps are :shock: on my brisket or pork butts as i never use a temp probe i use one of these:

Never had a bad one yet, oh and i don't wrap either!:-D

 

[Bob C Cue]

Do what works for you the best, i can honestly tell you i have no ides what my temps are :shock: on my brisket or pork butts as i never use a temp probe i use one of these:

Never had a bad one yet, oh and i don't wrap either!:-D

That looks like an awl right idea to me.

 

[Q Junkie]

I think that the hot knife through butter is a generalization and not an exact, accurate description of the feel. "A hot knife through butter" has been a figure of speech for a long time used to describe a lot of things and is an easy term to throw out. I do not think that any of the really good briskets that I cooked probed like hot butter but I know what the feel is when they finally "give up" and part of that is the distinctive change in the way they start to probe and start to jiggle when handled. I do not know how to accurately describe the feel of the probing and I think that not all briskets will "give up" the exact same way every time. I am sure that I will under shoot and over shoot a few more times going forward but I have a general feel for what I am waiting to happen inside that piece of meat. :blah:

 

[Bob C Cue]

Note to mods: After reading the above advice I'm starting to blush. Please move to the Wood Pile.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

My input to Fillmore Farmer is what caused him to go backwards in his cooking process, as I tried to explain probe tender with no real resistance to him.

No Bob, it wasn't you....it was another local buddy who insisted that probe-tender meant the skewer goes in with ZERO resistance.

What I was more so trying to determine was what happened with that brisket...I do believe it was over-cooked and yet the thinner part of the flat went to mush/probe-liquid while the thicker part still presented rubber...mixed results, just wanted to see what the brethren collective had to say, I also feel bad buggin' you so much/often.

I had the exact thoughts almost verbatim.. I cant explain but I go for probe -jiggle...Hard to explain but Just feels right both way usually 195-210 and all in between :blah::shock:

Yeah, I quite agree....

I'd suggest for another test, next one, cook to your feel point, then probe with a temp gauge or tooth pick. Quite a difference between a wooden skewer and a thinner probe. But I also don't consider the effort to be like butter, but more like peanut butter resistance. Probe tender is a wide difference just as is IT. Like Ninja, don't try to fix what ain't broke. Just another option.

You know what, that's solid advice and an excellent approach. Next brisket will be pulled when the brisket feels right and jiggles right...at that time I will also probe it and as such calibrate that feel as my criteria for probe-tender. All things considered, I'm happy not to porcupine my brisket, I feel good using 190F as time to start feeling and checking it out and then pull from there.

 

[IamMadMan]

All in all, I'm glad you cooked a great brisket and achieved the apex of your brisket cook.....

You'll find that everyone has different methods, techniques, and temperatures. There is no single way to achieve a great cook, you have to find what you are comfortable with and what works best for you. Everyday can be a learning experience...

 

[Bludawg]

I probe from the top never the side & never any place but the thickest part of the Flat. Get an Awl and some Butcher Paper.

 

[Fillmore Farmer]

I probe from the top never the side & never any place but the thickest part of the Flat. Get an Awl and some Butcher Paper.

Awwwwwww.....that might explain something!!! I've been sticking from the side and trying to shove a wooden skewer about 3-4" deep...and expecting near zero resistance.

Why butcher paper over foil?

 

[aawa]

Your probe tender needs to be calibrated!

It took me 2-3 briskets to before I had the AH HA moment where I knew exactly what probe tender was. Since then I have had nothing but great results with my briskets.

I probe my briskets with a thermapen, but I don't ever look at the temperature on it. I just know the probe tender feeling and like SmokeNinja says the feel and "flop" of the meat.