Parsley... is EVERYONE using it or what?

[Finney]

I'm like you Michelle, I can't bring myself to pay for all that parsley. Up in Tryon NC this past weekend I bought 6 heads of green leaf lettuce and that was it. Out of all my appearance scores I got (12) 9's, (10) 8's, and (2) 7's. Honestly I was pretty disappointed with those scores - there was no reason for there to be anything less than a 9 given. I don't mean that in a boastful way, but I am my own toughest critic and know a kick-a$$ box when I see it. It really has me rethinking my presentation for the next 3 KCBS contests I have this summer. If I can find that KCBS-like program that lets you put in score and gives you a total, I'll run it with all 9's for appearance and see what happens. I have a feeling it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.

Dang Rub, come off you wallet for some parsley. I'm sure you've won enough this year to cover it. LOL

 

[stlgreg]

I may get yelled at for this but.....as a judge when i usually see the garnish first.

When I see the putting greens, I have come to know that person really took their time with things and I stand a good chance of getting something pretty good. The range of people that turn in putting greens to turning in really good food is pretty high.

When I see lettuce I am just not as excited. I have come to see over time the range of quality of food from people that turn in lettuce is MUCH greater than it is with putting greens.

It is a pavlov's dog type of thing. After judging so many contests I have come to see parsely makes my mouth drool.

Lettuce just doesnt ring my bell.

I am NOT saying I give nothing but high scores to putting greens NOR am i saying you put lettuce in there and I am not giving it a 9. What I am saying is part of the appearance scores I give out are for how much I want to eat what is there. Since I am more inclined to want to eat something on putting greens it has to help a little.

 

[BBQ_Mayor]

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance.

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?

I've done them both ways. I prefer the parsley boxes for presentation but the lettuce boxes are way easier to do.

Rules state that garnish is optional so try not using it sometime and see what scores you get.

Again, this is probably for another post but, I wish they would just get rid of any garnish.

 

[G$]

I may get yelled at for this but.....as a judge when i usually see the garnish first.

When I see the putting greens, I have come to know that person really took their time with things and I stand a good chance of getting something pretty good. The range of people that turn in putting greens to turning in really good food is pretty high.

When I see lettuce I am just not as excited. I have come to see over time the range of quality of food from people that turn in lettuce is MUCH greater than it is with putting greens.

It is a pavlov's dog type of thing. After judging so many contests I have come to see parsely makes my mouth drool.

Lettuce just doesnt ring my bell.

I am NOT saying I give nothing but high scores to putting greens NOR am i saying you put lettuce in there and I am not giving it a 9. What I am saying is part of the appearance scores I give out are for how much I want to eat what is there. Since I am more inclined to want to eat something on putting greens it has to help a little.

This is illuminating. (Bolding mine, obviously)

 

[Skip]

We had a pattern we followed. The chicken box always got a putting green and the others would get a combination of the two. Recently we have decided to switch that after comparing box scores. Although we still use some lettuce as a base that just peeks out the sides our main focus is the parsley. It just gives you that uniformity in the box. Lettuce, by its shape, can look clunky in the box no matter how you place it. IMO

As a judge as well I will have to say that it is still a meat contest. Most I speak to do judge on the merits of the meat but its subjective. A parsley box makes the food appear to jump out at you when the box is opened. If its on a bed of lettuce it appears to be sinking into the box. As ridiculous as that sounds it's what I see. So I am not judging the garnish for score but I am judging the meat partially on how the garish helps presents it. Has anyone actually seen a no garnish box that they would give more then a 7 to? Every light to no garish box I see never gets the meat to present well. It always appears to be dumped in the box.

 

[Countryhb]

A CASE of parsley for 4 boxes??? Have you attempted putting greens? I can do a box on a bunch to a bunch-and-a-half.

 

[Divemaster]

We do the parsley thing all the time, but I have NEVER gone through a whole case... The most I pick up is 6-bunches and we normally have 1-2 bunches left over...

 

[early mornin' smokin']

I was gonna say, a whole case, thats nuts, chopped iceberg lettuce in the bottom for the base, and than go to work on the putting green

 

[Rub]

I may get yelled at for this but.....as a judge when i usually see the garnish first.

I appreciate your honesty and that helps me make up my mind to switch.

Finney, I hadn't changed over for a couple of reasons. One was cost, 2 was time as I am usually cooking solo, and 3 because in a perfect world it shouldn't matter. But as we see, it does.

BTW, when Sled ran the numbers (thanks!) giving me 9's for appearance, it moved me up to RGC.

GC was 670.8568

RGC was 661.7138

My original score was 657.7140, revised is 666.2854, which is well over the current RGC score. Know that I am not complaining about the outcome, but just realizing that I do need to make a change. Time to learn putting greens!

ammoore, I know what you're saying. Trust me :wink:. In this case it would have moved me from 5th to RGC.

 

[stlgreg]

What I mean by "as a judge when i usually see the garnish first." is when the box is first opened I am looking at the box the first thing I can physically see is the garnish.

 

[PatioDaddio]

Garnish is the lingerie of a turn-in box. You see it first, it makes things look nice and then you move on. :-D

John

 

[swamprb]

Garnish is optional with the Pacific Northwest BBQ Assn. (PNWBA) The last comp I judged in April, I saw 2 parsley boxes. 29 Teams and I talked to a few fellow cooks judging and they only saw a couple.
I score well on Appearance with parsley beds, I may go through a case looking for thick bushy sprigs of it, but only use at the most 2 bunches per box. I had never been happy with my lettuce boxes, but do like the way my meats are framed on the putting green.

 

[RobKC]

Rub, Chris does an excellent job on our boxes. He's so good, I think I'll let him do them the rest of the year.:twisted:

We use less than 2 bunches of parsley per box at 79¢ per bunch. Chopped/sliced iceberg in the bottom.

 

[Bentley]

ok... I understand the pro... it looks great.

It can, if its done correctly!

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance.

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

It's never been a contest about meat, its about sauce and rubs. If it was a meat contest you would just cook the meat.


So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?


In the last 3 contests I have judged... A lot more!

As always, thats for letting me rant!

 

[Gowan]

This is illuminating. (Bolding mine, obviously)

This comes back to something we've touched on before - how we as cooks are actually training judges through creating expectations as to what "winning bbq" is.

Think of it this way: Make two batches of cookie dough, but add an extra cup of salt to one batch. Then present the normal cookie on a white napkin to a group of kids and the salted cookie on a red napkin. Repeat this process a dozen times over a couple months.

At the end of the experiment, switch the napkins and present both to the kids, asking them which they would rather have. You can bet the majority will choose the cookie on the white napkin before they sample it. One of the most challenging things about being a BBQ judge is getting past this conditioning. As a judge I have tasted some really great entries that I scored quite low on appearance and vice versa. We have to keep asking ourselves if we are truly basing our scores on the entry in front of us or the expectations we brought to the table with us.

 

[crd26a]

It gives me something to do while RobKC is jerkin his chicken

 

[CajunSmoker]

ok... I understand the pro... it looks great.

But what the hell else is so awesome that it gets you 9's instead of 8's?

Some input from judges would be great, since it seems that sometimes that can be the only reason our box didn't get a 9 in appearance.

So much for the "it's a meat contest".

I think I am one of the last holdouts who simply refuses to go through an entire case of parsley for 4 boxes.

So the question is... IS everyone doing parsley boxes now?

I don't know how to make this a poll...

We use all parsley. I tried putting lettuce under the parsley to help support it, but Kim (Smoke on Wheels) showed me the proper way to make an all parsley box. Now it's all parsley. We don't use a case to do it though. Typically we buy 12 bunches to make 4 boxes. We only buy more than 12 if it doesn't look really fresh.

 

[Jeff Hughes]

I buy parsley for about 20 bucks a case. 60 bunches, split the case 5 ways, 4 bucks/person, and you will have some left over to share with a neighbor...

 

[smoke-n-my-i's]

Here is the 2009 rules for garnish:
[FONT=&quot]12) Garnish is optional. If used, it is limited to chopped,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]sliced, shredded or whole leaves of fresh green lettuce,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]curly parsley, flat leaf parsley and/or cilantro. Kale, endive,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]red tipped lettuce, lettuce cores and other vegetation are[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]prohibited. Improper garnish shall receive a score of one (1)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]on Appearance.[/FONT]

We have all read it, we have all struggled with it, we have all had questions about it, we have all had doubts about it.

I have used lettuce, parsley, and mixed....

At a recent comp, we were told by the rep, that to make sure we had our parsley beds looking top notch in order to get the best score in appearance. But wait, doesn't it say in the rules that garnish is optional? So why the plug for a great looking parsley bed in the box? Why is the rep pushing it?

Do we need to rethink and read between the lines of what optional means? I agree, parsley does make the box look better, but when it means optional, that means IMHO, that if I leave the greens out completely, does that mean I will get a 1 for a score? I would hope not. If the meat looks better than yours, and yours is on a perfectly manicured green box, and mine has no greenery, what do you think would happen? I will bet that your score would be higher than mine. They say that is doesn't matter, but IMHO, it does.... so, what if we all ban together and forget the greenery and stop all the bickering abt the greens and take the worry out of "what would my score be if..." besides, it is a meat competition, not a make my box look like a putting green... let's do like FBA does, NO GREEN stuff at all.

I will go back to my corner now....

 

[Smokin' Joe]

Parsley for us, 8 bunches (for 4 boxes) with chopped lettuce under...I would like to hear more about this all parsley method if anyone in willing to share!