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Okie Sawbones

Banned
Joined
Sep 3, 2013
Location
Edgewood, TX
Is anyone seeing a real problem out there, or is this one of those feel good things that lawmakers and committees like to do? I haven't noticed anything in my area of the country, but of course I can't be at every table.

Step Letter
The intent of the 3 step system is for the improvement of Members with
the rules, regulations and procedures of KCBS. The intent of the KCBS
Board is not to eliminate judges or table captains, but to have judging kept
within KCBS guidelines. This is to help members, new and seasoned, to
be aware of rule changes by updating their education.
We would encourage all Judges and Table Captains to:
1. Review rules each year.
2. Take the Continuing Education questionnaire several times a year.
3. Review or volunteer at a CBJ Class and/or Table Captain Class each year.
4. Volunteer in the judging area to understand the complete judging
procedure.
These are ways you can stay up to speed with the current KCBS approach.
The following steps will be used to determine what would be the best ap-
proach to help CBJ’s and/or Table Captains to better their skills as a Judge
and Table Captain described as a three step program.
Should concerns of actions outside the KCBS rules, regulations be iden-
tified, contact to the CBJ Chair should be made with as much detail as
possible. And the Chair will thoroughly gain insight into what may have
happened. This will start the process.
During the process, A standardized form will be put into the Member’s
file for future CBJ Chairs to hopefully not have reason to refer to. Along
with the form, a statement as to the offense, the method of contact with the
Member, and the outcome of the contact. This is simply a record keeping.
What action or step number is determined necessary will depend on the
level of rules infraction. All possible situations are not able to be seen
ahead of time, but rest assured the Member will have the right to speak
to the BOD of KCBS.
Step 1. The Member will be contacted by the CBJ Chair who is a Board
member. The CBJ Chair might suggest reviewing the rules, taking the
Continuing Education test, review a CBJ/TC Class, review the “KCBS
Judges’ Code of Conduct”.
Step 2. The second offense: The Member will be required to take the CBJ
class at no cost to the CBJ but will not be fed. Proof will be provided to
the CBJ Chair that they met this requirement. Also required to take the
Continuing Education test and review the rules. There will be a follow
up by the CBJ Chair.
Step 3. The third offense, with Board approval in Executive Session, if
deemed necessary could create provisions that are established for a return
to active judging not to exclude removal of privileges or membership.
While we trust each and every Certified Judge and Table Captain with
the integrity and fairness with the competition process, this is designed
to help be a refresher and an opportunity for members to be updated on
the current KCBS approaches.
 
I was reading this in the latest Bullsheet the other day, in fact I read it several times then clipped it out for my judges file folder. I'm grasping the recommended options for annual refreshing, and the various actions that could be implemented in there is an infraction.

I would like an example(s) of: Should concerns of actions outside the KCBS rules, regulations be identified, contact to the CBJ Chair should be made with as much detail as possible. And the Chair will thoroughly gain insight into what may have happened. This will start the process.
 
Cowboy Bob, Polson making himself feel important...now we're keeping files on unidentified infractions against CBJ's.
I seem to remember a procedure inventing Rep being ousted and then returned to duty later on.
Ed
 
Why are any of my fellow judges concerned with this? Why should we feel above criticism and corrective action (when appropriate)? If/When I screw up, I hope that someone calls me on my crap, as I'm likely too stupid to recognize it myself...

sa66xem.png
 
At 62 years of age and 11 years as a KCBS CBJ I'm certainly not of the "Snowflake" genre
Why single out CBJ's for file keeping? What about the cook teams that show up to get drunk and do some cooking with it? What about Reps and board members that get their misdeeds taken into the secret world of "KCBS Executive Meetings"?
I'm not fearful of ever making the dreaded additional action files, I just think if it's such a great idea that it must pertain to all involved.
Ed
 
I figure it probably has to do with their anti-discrimination and anti-harassment policies. You can't say anything anymore without someone saying they were harassed or offended. I don't even tell clean jokes anymore. :twitch:

Then again, it could be comment cards, because they really stressed proper use of comment cards yesterday. And they really stressed to judge the entry before you, not what you expect it to be.

One guy brought this up at our table that comment cards could be used against you, because cooks will complain that judges are using their personal taste, not what was presented. Others said just don't write any comment cards. I feel that this only hurts cooks who keep an open mind.

I don't let all of the hoopla bother me. I sent out 5 comment cards yesterday -- sauce too thick. I just checked my scores and I was within 4/10 of a point of the table in chicken, ribs, and pork.

In brisket, I was a point higher. People were complaining of the briskets being too salty. My wife's table said the same thing. I guess I have a higher salt tolerance than some folks.

KCBS comes up with this 3 strike rule, while ignoring the elephant in the room. Make all judges pass a test to become a judge. Make all judges pass an online continuing education test each year.
 
At 62 years of age and 11 years as a KCBS CBJ I'm certainly not of the "Snowflake" genre
Why single out CBJ's for file keeping? What about the cook teams that show up to get drunk and do some cooking with it? What about Reps and board members that get their misdeeds taken into the secret world of "KCBS Executive Meetings"?
I'm not fearful of ever making the dreaded additional action files, I just think if it's such a great idea that it must pertain to all involved.
Ed

Not sure I can agree with this. Pertain to all involved? If a team decides to get drunk and be rowdy, I'm sure teams/Reps would not let them back. Also, I believe there is a complaint process that goes along with that. Of course, you have have the Royal where that is exactly what some teams do.

Judges don't pay the money to compete. Teams do. Without teams (drunk or not) there would be no need for judges.
 
Not sure I can agree with this. Pertain to all involved? If a team decides to get drunk and be rowdy, I'm sure teams/Reps would not let them back. Also, I believe there is a complaint process that goes along with that. Of course, you have have the Royal where that is exactly what some teams do.

Judges don't pay the money to compete. Teams do. Without teams (drunk or not) there would be no need for judges.

What do you mean judges don't pay money! How about 1 or 2 nights in a motel, fuel to and back, consumables for themselves and family, days of vacation, on and on. Maybe not as much as cook teams but still an outlay of cash to share in the sport. Cook teams can win money back, judges just have the expense and the joy of comp BBQ. Enough for me....

I can name a whole handful of teams that put on quite the show and as long as they have money in their hands they will always be there.
My last contest I cooked, the team beside me started drinking the second they got there got sloppy drunk and I had to listen to the husband and wife fight fiercely all night long. Then I smiled as they turned in ribs for chicken.
Oh by the way they were in the same spot the next year doing the same crap.
Ed
 
Fire all the CBJ Instructors! Video a teaching class, make it available on the web site for every CBJ to take. Keep track of when they watch it. Do classes but show the video. Food if you want, but make it GOOD BBQ not quickly done junk which might as well come from a commercial BBQ producer (or worse).


Now, tell me how a rib can be underdone and mushy? I hate comment cards!
 
Fire all the CBJ Instructors! Video a teaching class, make it available on the web site for every CBJ to take. Keep track of when they watch it. Do classes but show the video. Food if you want, but make it GOOD BBQ not quickly done junk which might as well come from a commercial BBQ producer (or worse).


Now, tell me how a rib can be underdone and mushy? I hate comment cards!

You go Sista!!
If you remember, when I first got on the CBJ Committee I suggested ALL CBJ's take a mandatory,yearly online refresher class and ALL headcooks must be a member in good standing to participate in KCBS BBQ Competitions.
Well the owner of KCBS wanted nothing to do with any of that, and as most know, what the owner says goes.....
Ed
 
What do you mean judges don't pay money! How about 1 or 2 nights in a motel, fuel to and back, consumables for themselves and family, days of vacation, on and on. Maybe not as much as cook teams but still an outlay of cash to share in the sport. Cook teams can win money back, judges just have the expense and the joy of comp BBQ.

I was wondering who was going to present this old song and dance...

Let's say there was a contest 10 minutes away from your home, and both you and your neighbor wanted to participate. You are judging, while your neighbor is competing. What are your costs compared to theirs?

No matter how close a contest is, teams are GUARANTEED to have out of pocket expenses - judges do not!

Stop with that tired argument...
 
You go Sista!!
If you remember, when I first got on the CBJ Committee I suggested ALL CBJ's take a mandatory,yearly online refresher class and ALL headcooks must be a member in good standing to participate in KCBS BBQ Competitions.
Well the owner of KCBS wanted nothing to do with any of that, and as most know, what the owner says goes.....
Ed

Well that would get into their little contests around here that let the organizers friends/VIPs get a seat at the judging table......and we can't make those be competitor contests, because the top teams wouldn't participate.

Someday KCBS is gonna have to decide who they are catering to.....the teams, organizers, or the corporations. It's gonna be a slow death otherwise.
 
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Fire all the CBJ Instructors! Video a teaching class, make it available on the web site for every CBJ to take. Keep track of when they watch it. Do classes but show the video. Food if you want, but make it GOOD BBQ not quickly done junk which might as well come from a commercial BBQ producer (or worse).


I agree with Candy.

I've worked at several CBJ classes, including cooking for a few. I can tell you from experience that the food budget allocated by KCBS and quantity required for your typical class of 50-75 judges make it impossible to present competition grade entries to the students, let alone the sort of variety in entries you will see in a real-world contest.

The video route will assure every class receives the same instruction (something that absolutely does not happen now), and you can add a requirement to serve as a non-judging volunteer once or twice before handing over the CBJ badge. That will provide access to the grazing table for sampling as well as the opportunity to observe the process in the judging tent.

The current structure of the CBJ classes only serves as a revenue source and personal opinion platform for the instructors. An added benefit would be the increase in revenue for KCBS because a number of people will pay to take the online course who would not otherwise attend an onsite class, all while reducing the cost to the student because there is no need to pay for meat, garnish and boxes.
 
You go Sista!!
If you remember, when I first got on the CBJ Committee I suggested ALL CBJ's take a mandatory,yearly online refresher class and ALL headcooks must be a member in good standing to participate in KCBS BBQ Competitions.
Well the owner of KCBS wanted nothing to do with any of that, and as most know, what the owner says goes.....
Ed

Ed, KCBS is a member-owned organization! There are founding members but they don't own...


I do remember. I'm not saying anything that I didn't say when I was on the board. Too much money into the KCBS coffers from CBJ judging classes. But CBJ instructors do not teach the same classes. That's the first problem with skewed judging. There has to be standardization.


My number 2 thing is to put the overall results on the team detail page and don't give any category detail sheets at the contest -- just the team results page. That takes a bunch of work off the reps and the pressure of having a copier off the organizer. If the chief cook is a member, they log into the KCBS.US web site and pull the category results to their printer if they choose to print it. Non-member only gets what's on the public results list and their team detailed results. That will do more to get cooks to spend the $40 to be a member of KCBS.


Off the soap box! But I still hate comment cards.
 
Fire all the CBJ Instructors! Video a teaching class, make it available on the web site for every CBJ to take. Keep track of when they watch it. Do classes but show the video. Food if you want, but make it GOOD BBQ not quickly done junk which might as well come from a commercial BBQ producer (or worse).

Now, tell me how a rib can be underdone and mushy? I hate comment cards!

Learning is an individual thing. You can take college courses online and do just as well as if sitting in an ivy league classroom. It is individual effort. Put the KCBS course online, followed by an online test. Sure, someone could game the system, but it is better than just showing up, then raising your hand, as it is now.

AFA the rib, you are a very talented cook to undercook half the rib and overcook the other half. :becky:
 
What do you mean judges don't pay money! How about 1 or 2 nights in a motel, fuel to and back, consumables for themselves and family, days of vacation, on and on. Maybe not as much as cook teams but still an outlay of cash to share in the sport. Cook teams can win money back, judges just have the expense and the joy of comp BBQ. Enough for me...
Ed

Yep. One comp is an hour away, otherwise the closest is more than three hours away. This past weekend we drove 4.5 hours to a comp. No costs is just blatant BS, as you know.
 
Judges don't pay the money to compete. Teams do. Without teams (drunk or not) there would be no need for judges.

And without judges there would be scored competition. That knife cuts both ways. And with what I spent to go to the comp this past weekend, I could have purchased a SRF gold grade wagyu brisket, and a slab of their kurobuta spare ribs...
 
I was wondering who was going to present this old song and dance...

Let's say there was a contest 10 minutes away from your home, and both you and your neighbor wanted to participate. You are judging, while your neighbor is competing. What are your costs compared to theirs?

No matter how close a contest is, teams are GUARANTEED to have out of pocket expenses - judges do not!

Stop with that tired argument...


As long as I'm singing and dancing how about me driving 3 1/2 hrs and 250 miles to judge at Owatana MN, 2 nights lodging, fuel, eats and drinks, just to judge friends and strangers Q?
We all have skin in the game, yours might be more, but that's your choice...
Ed
 
I'm going to pull a Myron Mixon circa Pitmaster season 1 and use a little lighter fluid... I've not heard of a contest being cancelled due to lack of judges, but I have heard of them cancelled due to lack of cook teams...
 
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