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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 01-25-2011, 01:22 PM   #16
Scottie
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It slows teams down... what if they made the inspection at 11:00, 11:30 or at 12:30, right before pork is to be turned in?? Let's face it. This is not a perfect sport for enforcing rules. But if you put up road blocks, it stops some from cheating... Will it stop everyone? No. But a society that is built on following the rules and specifics, it doesn't make sense not to do it...

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Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
After a few minutes, of thinking about how to cheat, a 10 AM inspection solves nothing. A cook could pull illegal meat and place it in a hidden cooler, just as easily as they could hide it in a drink cooler during the initial meat inspection.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 01:34 PM   #17
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I think it really depends on the accuracy and use of their terminology.
The info below comes from official ECE document on pork cuts. I know we're not in Europe... but the cut below sounds like a butt to me.

Now I have no idea whether or not this is what Snake River is selling.
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================================================== ===============

Collar butt – Special Trim * 4245


Collar butt or buttspecial trim is prepared from shoulder upper half bone in (Item 4059) by the removal of the ribs, thoracic, cervical vertebrae and the shoulder lower half. The collar butt is the dorsal portion remaining after the shoulder lower half has been removed. All bone and cartilage is removed. The skin is removed from the collar butt surface. A strip of fat is retained on the lateral surface of the cut running parallel to the dorsal edge the length of the collar butt. Specify the width and thickness of the strip of fat to be retained.

To be specified:
· Specify fat cover requirements
· Specify fat trim level
· Specify length of tail distance from eye of meat

*Trade descriptions can be shown as Butt or Collar Butt – Special Trim.

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Unread 01-25-2011, 01:46 PM   #18
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IMHO inspections are not the answer. If it's made clear at the cooks meeting that a pork collar is illegal, then would people still use it? I don't think so. Now if somebody does use it then shame on them. Cheating to win just isn't part of this sport. Stretching the rules because it's not specifically stated may be considered cheating by some and not by others.

No way to stop parting or putting pork back on. Too easy to cheat if you really wanted. Bad rule. Cuts of meat - good rule. No microwave - good rule but with trailers, motorhomes, and ezup's with 4 sides down who know what is happening. Still a good rule. If people want to cheat they will. Some day they will slip up and end up out of the sport for 2 years with their record now in question just like the steroid boys of baseball.

And all you northerners need to take a vacation and come down to Florida and cook a contest just to relax.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 02:00 PM   #19
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yikes!
this wasn't my intention at all.

i was just unfamiliar with the cut "collar", and i glazed right over the 4#'s.

but, if what scottie said is true, about ToY teams using SRF collar, then...fark.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 03:44 PM   #20
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How does a pork collar cook differently? Is it an advantage? The only advantage I see is one would be paying for 4 #'s of Berkshire instead of 8-9 #'s. Hmmmm..... actually after googling some pictures it looks like it's the part of the butt w/ the money muscle and no bone. I'll stick with commercial pork since the Hampshire and Berk butt's I've cooked have been excessively fatty. Slices of MM with a thick vein of fat isn't appealing to too many people.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 04:46 PM   #21
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I just wish that the parting rule would be tossed out. We play by the rules but I say it is a silly rule.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 06:09 PM   #22
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One idea to solve things...keep meat in original packaging until the meat (and cut) has been inspected by a meat inspector. The meat inspector should also have some background in "meat". I guess there's no way to completely avoid someone from swapping out meat, but it might help.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 06:38 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Kev View Post
I guess there's no way to completely avoid someone from swapping out meat, but it might help.
Probably not. Anyone could have a back up cooler.

I want to trim my meat at home. Many do.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 08:53 PM   #24
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But if the seller specifies it as a collar then it's not a butt or a picnic and besides it's not five pounds. Anybody who uses it is cheating. This kind of creative interpretation is a real problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finney View Post
I think it really depends on the accuracy and use of their terminology.
The info below comes from official ECE document on pork cuts. I know we're not in Europe... but the cut below sounds like a butt to me.

Now I have no idea whether or not this is what Snake River is selling.
(Where are the buthers when you need them?)
================================================== ===============

Collar butt – Special Trim * 4245


Collar butt or buttspecial trim is prepared from shoulder upper half bone in (Item 4059) by the removal of the ribs, thoracic, cervical vertebrae and the shoulder lower half. The collar butt is the dorsal portion remaining after the shoulder lower half has been removed. All bone and cartilage is removed. The skin is removed from the collar butt surface. A strip of fat is retained on the lateral surface of the cut running parallel to the dorsal edge the length of the collar butt. Specify the width and thickness of the strip of fat to be retained.

To be specified:
· Specify fat cover requirements
· Specify fat trim level
· Specify length of tail distance from eye of meat

*Trade descriptions can be shown as Butt or Collar Butt – Special Trim.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 11:22 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
But if the seller specifies it as a collar then it's not a butt or a picnic and besides it's not five pounds. Anybody who uses it is cheating. This kind of creative interpretation is a real problem.
I'm not even talking about the under 5 lbs thing... that can't be argued... it's either 5lbs (+) or it isn't.

But to say that a label has to say "boston butt" ("picnic", or "whole shoulder") specifically is a bunch of whoey. I've bought butts and picnics that just said "pork shoulder" on the labels, others (butts) have said "Boston blade roast" (this one says boston, but not butt) or "pork shoulder - butt" (this one says butt, but not boston).
I've also bought whole shoulders that also said "pork shoulder". Did it need to specify 'whole'? Lots of meat cut names change by region. You should go into the country with some 'good ole boys' and help slaughter hogs and hear what they are calling different cuts.

As I said in the post above, I have know idea what SRF is selling. I've never bought one from them. So I'm not saying what they are selling is legal.

All I'm saying is from the description of what a "collar butt" (above), that it would appear that it should be legal (if over 5 lbs) because it is just a trimmed up upper shoulder just like a "boston butt". It is part of the shoulder, not meat that is from near the shoulder.
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Unread 01-25-2011, 11:40 PM   #26
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People Cheat????? Well Son Of A $%^&*@,, What is this Sport Coming Too
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Unread 01-26-2011, 06:57 AM   #27
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I do not plan on using them, BUT.
I would argue that the only thing that makes them illegal would be that they are under 5 lbs. You get a hold of a "pork collar" according to the description above and it's over 5 lbs it is perfectly legal. Aside from it being the very definition of a bone out boston butt, if it is any part of a whole shoulder that weighs at least 5 pounds, it's legal.
We cannot "part", but we certainly can trim...as much as we want as long as we stay above 5 lbs.
Doesn't matter who does the trimming.. you or the butcher.. if it was a legal piece of meat to start with and you did nothing illegal to it.. it's still legal.
It is neither outside the letter or spirit of the rule.
What is stamped on a package does not make a piece of meat illegal if the cut inside it is legal.

As above.. I don't know exactly what SRF is selling, but if it conforms to the above description, it's only illegal because of weight.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 07:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlyle View Post
Any one have some pictures of pork collar that meat inspectors can refer to?

Can you tell it is pork collar just by looking?
You would be better off doing training yourself like our government will do when they train the secret service when looking for counterfeit paper money. Study the real thing and get to know it and ask questions to the owner and you (as a rep) have the right to be explained all the "why's" a piece of meat is cut the way it is to quarntee it is a butt, picnic, or whole shoulder.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 07:57 AM   #29
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I guess we just need some more rules to clear this up either way because I see it clearly but a good amount of others don't see it the same way so it must be confusing as written.
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Unread 01-26-2011, 08:23 AM   #30
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The rules clearly specify the legal cuts. At no point does it say "or parts thereof" or anything like that. You can cook Boston Butt, Whole Shoulder, or Picnic.


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