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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 01-31-2011, 12:51 PM   #211
Scottie
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yeah, why nolt? I have nothing to hide. Ever... I don't need to bend the rules to fit my weakness in cooking. I can stand on my own two feet and beat folks with substandard legal meats. I don't need any advantage. If I don't win, I sure am not going to bitch about my meat... Judging maybe... But if there is any question (sometimes I have to get smaller butts, I will bring the labeling AND my scale..) I have also gone as far as having the rep look at my meat. Just in case they are have not seen what I do with my pork. If the reps know me, then I don't worry about it. But all new reps, I will seek out.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:05 PM   #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
No matter how popular they are. they are cheating, plain and simple.
If pork collar is simply another name for what we all know as boston butt and the cut is over 5lb no one was cheating.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:20 PM   #213
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i think he is talking about the fact that snake river farms only offered a 4 LB collar. now they say that the cut will be available over 5 LB. i think he's refering to the weight before this whole thing started and not the cut. me personally, i could care less. i dont care what is cooked by other teams. i really cant see a slightly different cut or undersized piece being an advantage anyway. there is always going to be a butcher who cuts a steak a slightly different way and calls it his own cut, like the new sam adams steak. He could call it what he wants but i still think its a strip steak. but the fact of the matter is whatever the butcher classifies his "new" cut as, its still a strip steak just like the collar is still a glorified butt. as long as its 5 pounds who cares
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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:38 PM   #214
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I think we still have two completely different debates going.
I don't think anybody dissagrees that if the cut is under 5lbs it's illegal.
The major conflict revolves around the naming of the legal cuts.
In my opinion, if you are not gaining a competitive advantage and are cooking a 5lb or larger hunk of meat from the shoulder, it's not cheating.

I just hope when it comes time for me to get my butts for the next contest, I don't find out that Sam's Club is labeling theirs as Pork Shoulder Butts instead of Boston Butts.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:43 PM   #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ique View Post
If pork collar is simply another name for what we all know as boston butt and the cut is over 5lb no one was cheating.

I'm going to start having my butcher call my pork loin, white meat butt. Or the belly as bacon butt. that's all cool then? I mean, they are all attached at some point...

there has to be a clear definition and I believe that KCBS does that in the rules. No matter how many hairs can be split, it's still not a pork shoulder, butt or picnic. I don't care what Snake River Farms call it. I also know that a bunch of guys have sponsorship with SRF. doesn't make it anymore right.

I'll wait for a decision by the Board. I have a feeling which way it will be ruled.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:48 PM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
I have also gone as far as having the rep look at my meat.


I guess it would depend on the rep whether or not that would give you a competitive advantage. Sorry, I'll go to my corner now.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:49 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roksmith View Post
I just hope when it comes time for me to get my butts for the next contest, I don't find out that Sam's Club is labeling theirs as Pork Shoulder Butts instead of Boston Butts.
Get ready for your hopes to be crushed. Sam's Club (near me anyway) sells Pork Shoulder Butts. I suggest you try to find a butcher who sells something distributed under the name "Boston Butt," or let the BOD know how this rule affects you.

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Unread 01-31-2011, 01:58 PM   #218
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That's kinda my point. How clear is the rule exactly? Who says a Pork Shoulder Butt or a Pork Butt is the same thing as a Boston Butt...and who says a Collar Butt isn't the same.
If we're following this rule that is so clear, then every Pork Shoulder Butt at your local Sams is illegal.

I think the spirit of the rule is fine, but the wording is waaaay to restrictive if we're to follow it to the letter.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 02:12 PM   #219
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I think some folks should worry about how to cook the meat, not how to get around the rules. If that is your advantage, awesome. the rules are clear, no matter how muddied you make the waters...


I now know why i have tried staying out of this discussion.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 02:17 PM   #220
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Who's trying to get around the rules?
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Unread 01-31-2011, 02:24 PM   #221
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Scottie: I have no doubt that you do everything possible to ensure that you are not cheating and that should be acknowledged. You even go the extra step as you mentioned with reps and informing your neighbors if you have to relight your pit. I just want to ensure that before any one calls foul over the name of a cut of meat, that person should have the correctly named cut.

Chris: While I agree with you that it should be that way, from what has been posted in this thread, it is not that way. If it's the same cut but labeled something else when sold, it is not the same thing. If that's the rule, that's the rule, but we should all abide by it. I don't shop at RD, but what are their products labeled as when purchased? How are they marked when in the case?

And of course, I agree with keeping things legal, but how far are we going to go. The meat needs to be called something when purchased, but what is placed on the cooker can be some subset thereof, as long as it is >= 5 lb.. Weighing at meat inspection is much less important to me than weighing before the insertion into the cooker. Should the reps find out from each team what time the meat goes in and weigh it then? How far are we going to go here? And of course there's always the question, how do you ensure that the meat that was inspected, at meat inspection or at meat insertion, is the meat being served? You can go crazy being paranoid what other teams are doing and still not solve the problem.

btw, slightly off topic, but not, is there rule prohibiting non-competition meats from being cooked in any cooker at any point during a comp? Call it questionable if you want, but is it illegal?

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Unread 01-31-2011, 02:28 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
I'm going to start having my butcher call my pork loin, white meat butt. Or the belly as bacon butt. that's all cool then? I mean, they are all attached at some point...
No. That would be illegal.

If the cut is the upper part of the front shoulder (ie, Boston Butt, Pork Butt, Collar Trim Butt) it doesnt matter what you call it, its legal.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 02:38 PM   #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ique View Post
No. That would be illegal.

If the cut is the upper part of the front shoulder (ie, Boston Butt, Pork Butt, Collar Trim Butt) it doesnt matter what you call it, its legal.

The problem I see with the "collar is part of the butt" argument is that should the collar contain pieces of muscle/fat/sinew/vein/bone/grissle/etc that would not normally be a part of the butt. I would contend that even a single fiber of a muscle/whatever from something not contained in a shoulder, picnic, or butt would make the cut illegal, even if the offending piece was removed prior to cooking.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 02:47 PM   #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawgPhan View Post
The problem I see with the "collar is part of the butt" argument is that should the collar contain pieces of muscle/fat/sinew/vein/bone/grissle/etc that would not normally be a part of the butt. I would contend that even a single fiber of a muscle/whatever from something not contained in a shoulder, picnic, or butt would make the cut illegal, even if the offending piece was removed prior to cooking.
I agree with all that, only the muscles that would be included in a traditional Boston Butt are legal. And I believe thats the case with the collar trim butt.
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Unread 01-31-2011, 03:51 PM   #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I don't shop at RD, but what are their products labeled as when purchased? How are they marked when in the case?

dmp
The 2-pack in my freezer that I recently purchased from my local Restaurant Depot is labeled "Pork Butts Bone In".
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