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View Poll Results: Do you think a judge should be required to submit a comment card for any score they give that is low
Yes 106 82.17%
No 23 17.83%
Voters: 129. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 01-09-2011, 04:04 PM   #1
Vince RnQ
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Default Poll Regarding Comment Cards - Please Vote

Anyone who has done more than a handful of competitions has probably received a pretty harsh score or two from the judges on one of their entries. It's never fun to see a 5, a 4 or even lower on your score sheet but it stings even more when you don't get any kind of explanation as to why that score was given.

I have long held that if a judge gives a score lower than a 6, a comment card should be required from that judge. The argument against this idea has always been that if a judge is required to explain themselves, they'll simply not score lower than a 6 which will unfairly alter the true results. I think that is complete hogwash.

The teams hang it all out there every time they turn in a box and if a judge thinks it is deserving of a low score they should be able to articulate their reasoning without any difficulty. There are a myriad of valid reasons for low scores including but not limited to poor texture, over-seasoning, under-seasoning, over-smoked, etc. A straightforward comment would make it very clear to the team what that judge thought should change in order to improve the score. No drama, no disrespect, just a simple explanation for the score.

All a team really wants to know from a judge when they get a low score is "why did you think it deserved that score?" Until KCBS begins to require this simple level of accountability from the judges, don't expect many comment cards on those low scores.

Please take a moment to cast a vote in this poll.

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Unread 01-09-2011, 04:18 PM   #2
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most of the KCBS comment cards I have received are useless.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 04:28 PM   #3
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I voted yes as any information from the judges would be better than no information at all.
I mean if I can get a bit of constructive critisism is better than being left clueless.
Kind of like your kid going to school and you have no conferences or a report card for your childs progress.
They just flunked your kid w/o any explanation.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 04:36 PM   #4
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I think they should be required to give comment cards for EVERY entry, not just the bad ones.

Just tell what you liked or didn't like. It doesn't have to be a novel.

(I didn't vote yes or no because of my answer)
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Unread 01-09-2011, 05:00 PM   #5
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Ford, I was going to agree with your point, but Vince added that there could even be some simple, stock reason codes, thta allow quick expansion. Knowing your 5 rated pork was "poor texture: mushy" can't hurt. Likewise, if it said "Taste issue: too Salty". These simple comments would help our results, and WE could decoide what might have gone wrong, did one judge get an outlier, do we have a trend, etc.

I want to clarify the 'cut off mark'. 5 would be plausinble to me. I would not expect comments on 6s. This would not create a ton of extra work, and i don't think this would dis-incent fair judging.

One other thing: I'd collect a lot of comment cards.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 05:23 PM   #6
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Voted No.

I am a firm beliver in comment cards, filled out several at Tom's Farm contest. Fairly detailed ones. Much like I dont think you can legislate morality, I do not think you can force someone to comment on their score. I have over 20 contests under my belt...I would venture to guess that any judge that has over ten is going to fill one out if they give below a six, I know I sure owe it to the team, and I expect it when I compete. So you mandate a comment card and they end up writing on it, "this was not good"...What is the Rep to do? Does he now demand a more detailed explaination? Good luck with that one...

The inexperienced judge, whether CBJ or not probably could not articulate why they gave it the score they did any way, they are not trained enough yet.

If you want to effect a change, start having KCBS concentrate on contuning education, if it cost me and extra $25 a year to be a CBJ so be it...I have to do it to keep my Insurance licence active. And if folks throw the argument in my face that that will drive judges away...Hey, come on now, which judges do you think it will drive away? The lazy ones, the ones that arent really into it, and give a 4 without a comment card, and dont we wanna get rid of those Wanker's anyway?
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Unread 01-09-2011, 06:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bentley View Post
Voted No.

If you want to effect a change, start having KCBS concentrate on contuning education,

Not to hijack this thread but just what would be included in the continued education of current judges?
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Unread 01-09-2011, 06:24 PM   #8
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I dont know, I voted yes. Refer to Mista's 744 card. Frankly, even a useless
explanation is better than no explanation. At least then you'd KNOW the judge
was a clueless butt.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 07:06 PM   #9
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My favorite comment cards are the ones where they say they scored you down for some issue that KCBS rules says they aren't supposed to judge on, like food temp.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 07:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G$ View Post
Ford, I was going to agree with your point, but Vince added that there could even be some simple, stock reason codes, thta allow quick expansion. Knowing your 5 rated pork was "poor texture: mushy" can't hurt. Likewise, if it said "Taste issue: too Salty". These simple comments would help our results, and WE could decoide what might have gone wrong, did one judge get an outlier, do we have a trend, etc.

I want to clarify the 'cut off mark'. 5 would be plausinble to me. I would not expect comments on 6s. This would not create a ton of extra work, and i don't think this would dis-incent fair judging.

One other thing: I'd collect a lot of comment cards.
OK but when you get 5 8's or 9's on taste and 1 5 then what good is the comment to you. too salty for one judge but fine for the others is no valid input just one rogue judge.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 07:11 PM   #11
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There's no concept that's idiot-proof, but summarily dismissing a much-needed reality check because it can be misused is a mistake.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 07:23 PM   #12
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I welcome the comment cards for the most part...some are even downright hilarious...like the one I got that said I forgot to remove the membrane from my pork butt...true story!
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Unread 01-09-2011, 07:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EatonHoggBBQ View Post
Not to hijack this thread but just what would be included in the continued education of current judges?

I guess maybe an advanced class. You have that basics out of the way, you now know to look out for the Evil Carrot tops & Red tipped lettuce.

Maybe we could progress into what properly cook meat is, subjective, somewhat, but not really in my mind. If we give you a piece of chicken, rib, pork and brisket. One has been cooked to 155°, one has been cooked to 195° and one has been cooked to 220°, (might have to make an adjustment on temperatures with chicken), do we as experienced cooks think they will all be the same? I bet the guy giving 4’s think they are.

Taste, harder, you will probably need someone with better SAT’s then me for that, but I bet it could be done…

Appearance…well, we already covered that in class one!
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Unread 01-09-2011, 07:53 PM   #14
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Voted Yes. I've recently left KCBS dominant territory and moved back to Texas.

If you currently think your comment cards are worthless, try getting 0 feedback at almost all competitions in the state. Especially if your a relatively new team trying to figure things out.
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Unread 01-09-2011, 08:11 PM   #15
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Voted NO. If you require comment cards there will be some judges score within the range that doesn't require a card just so they don't have to fill one out. Also, every comment card I have seen was pretty much a joke.
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