ブタ
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 01-08-2011, 11:43 PM   #1
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Should Smoke Ring Matter?

So okay, we probably all know that KCBS judges are instructed not to look at smoke ring. The reason is because using curing agents containing nitrates and nitrites, an "artificial" smoke ring can be generated. At the same time, KCBS rules specifically ban "corned beef." Do this direction and rule contradict each other? What exactly is meant by "corned beef?" Do the rules mean that any brisket which has been packed in a barrol with small pebles of salt is banned? What if I cure a brisket in a wet brine, cover it with cracked pepper, and then smoke it, turning it into a pastrami? No, I think the rule means no cured briskets. If the rule really means no cured briskets, then any chemically induced smoke ring is illegal, and smoke rings could be judged....right? Does any one think it would be a bad thing to clear this up? How about a rules change where rather than banning corned beef, curing agents are banned, and judges are allowed to judge the smoke ring? What say the competing brethren?

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-08-2011, 11:49 PM   #2
rooftop bbq
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 05-17-10
Location: menifee ca
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

my guess is its talking about bringing in a corned brisket, if you wanted try and start corning it after inspection I dont think that would be a problem
rooftop bbq is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-08-2011, 11:52 PM   #3
Rookie'48
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Rookie'48's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-12-06
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

OK, let's try it this way: The meat (brisket in this case) cannot be seasoned, marinated or otherwise farked with before meat inspection at the comp. That being said - if you can corn the briskie, soak the salt out afterwards, smoke it & get it turned in all between meat inspection on Friday & 1:30 pm Saturday your a better man than I, Charlie Brown .

Rooftop beat me too it - slow typing mod.
__________________
Dave Compton
KCBS MasterCBJ # 22569
Member of the 100+ Contest Club

Possibly the only judge ever to get an award from a bunch of cooks

UDS 075 UCB WSM and a bunch of other stuff.
Rookie'48 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-08-2011, 11:59 PM   #4
CivilWarBBQ
is One Chatty Farker
 
CivilWarBBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-08-07
Location: Cartersville, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

IMO, the rule regarding corned beef has to do with what you start with, not what you end up with. If for some reason you wanted to turn in corned beef you could ~ you just have to start with a plain raw brisket and pickle it yourself between meat inspection and turn-in.

There is no need to worry about corned beef because anybody who tried it would be panned by the judges, just as you would if you turned in a box of chicken giblets (legal) or feather bone ribs (legal).

There are myriad clarifications and expansions that could be made to the existing rules and thousands more that could be added. Thank God KCBS has had the wisdom to rely primarily on the common sense and character of Reps to handle all these possibilities rather than create a five-inch thick book of rules.
CivilWarBBQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 01-09-2011, 12:27 AM   #5
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

All due respect, but I disagree: If the intent was simply to prevent you from bringing a manufacturer corned beef, then it would be included under rule 7 which specifically prohibits specific manufacturer additives. Just add sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate to the list. Add Potassium too if you wanna make sure.

I'm really trying to simplify the rules rather than complicate them. Rather than having one rule for manufacturer additives, another specific to corned beed, and an (undocumented?) direction to judges which they can easily ignore, just prohibit all curing agents and allow smoke ring.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 01:24 AM   #6
Smokedelic
Full Fledged Farker
 
Smokedelic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-24-06
Location: Tulsa, OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

If you can tell the difference between a smoke ring created with smoke and a "smoke ring" created with a curing agent, you're better than 98% of the folks out there.

I think the smoke ring adds to the overall appearance of any meat and probably factors into most judges scores accordingly.
__________________
Mike - Team Enoserv
Smokedelic is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 05:56 AM   #7
Smoke'n Ice
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 05-08-09
Location: Plano, TX
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

With your logic, green wood would be banned as it is a high producer of nitrate & nitrite during combustion. Another source, propane, is already banned so there would be precedence to banning the use of green wood. While we are at it, dry aged wood, while not as high in production of these chemicals, would also be banned.

It do get ridiculous during the off season.
Smoke'n Ice is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 07:33 AM   #8
Dale P
is One Chatty Farker
 
Dale P's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-28-06
Location: Porkbutt Ky
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

We had an offset that took a bunch of fuel to keep at temp. Smoked like a freight train. We didnt use any additives asnd the smoke ring wood be up to an inch. The brisket was horrible but what a smoke ring.
__________________
Spicewine Turbo 2007 model

Perry Brothers & Sons Bar-B-Q
Dale P is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 09:09 AM   #9
Buster Dog BBQ
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 07-20-08
Location: Clive, IA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Me thinks all the concentration on smoke ring makes poor attention to rest of contest.
__________________
FEC-100 Right Handed, FEC-100 Left Handed, Large BGE x2, Mini BGE
Buster Dog BBQ - [url]http://www.busterdogbbq.com[/url]
Buster Dog BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 09:25 AM   #10
Hogtie N' Ride
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Hogtie N' Ride's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-29-07
Location: Princeton WI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I like the idea to take the focus off a single characteristic, pigeon holing the whole entry for any one thing vs to stay focused on the overall appearance, is it appetizsing or not? Is my mouth watering?
Hogtie N' Ride is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 09:44 AM   #11
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
It do get ridiculous during the off season.
You're the one being a bit rediculous. Butter is banned as a manufacturer additive, but not for cooking process in general. "Corned Beef" is arbitrarily forbidden without defining what it is.

I agree that smoke ring shouldn't be singled out. That's the point. Rather than tell judges "look at the meat and tell me how appealing it is, but pretend like this one characteristic isn't even there" Help them by just saying look at the meat.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 10:13 AM   #12
JD McGee
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
JD McGee's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-28-07
Location: Duvall, WA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

The smoke ring is what it is...if you're smoking meats you're gonna get one in some form or another. I strive for a nice smoke ring just for presentation reasons...plus it tells the judges "this piece of meat was smoked to perfection"...how they interpret it "officially" is another issue.

As far as "curing" agents in competitions...I don't think you're gonna get a deep "artificial" smoke ring on an 8 hour cure...much less "corned beef or pastrami"...
__________________
Wine Country "Q" Competition BBQ
PNWBA Team of the Year...2011, 2012, & 2013
Founder
Northwest BBQ Society
We cook on MAK Grills , Big Poppa Drum Smokers, & WSM's
Proudly sponsored by Big Poppa Smokers, Kosmo's Q, Simply Marvelous BBQ, and MAK Grills
JD McGee is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 01-09-2011, 11:20 AM   #13
Finney
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Join Date: 01-15-09
Location: Salisbury, NC & Savannah, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
"Corned Beef" is arbitrarily forbidden without defining what it is.
I think most of us know what they mean when they say "Corned Beef".
__________________
Iron Pig BBQ - www.IronPigBBQ.com - "Reverse Sear" info on website
Finney is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 11:38 AM   #14
carlyle
Take a breath!

 
carlyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-06-10
Location: Owatonna, MN
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Disregarding smoke ring is just like disregarding garnish. Both during appearance judging. Both good ideas. Both instructions could possibly ignored by judges.

Cured meats or corned beef, as noted above, are unlikely in a contest due to the long
prep time that will not work in the time restraints of a contest.

It is possible to disagree about what a term means, like corned beef or parted pork,
no matter which words are used. Different people look at the same thing and do not agree with what it means.

Refer to the whole issue about " parted pork" in the rules. Big discussion and disagreement at Philly last year about what it meant and was it necessary.

If you feel strongly, get it to the rules part of the discussion at KC next week.
__________________
Carlyle, KCBS, CBJ, Organizer ( Judge Chair)
carlyle is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-09-2011, 12:13 PM   #15
Vince RnQ
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Vince RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-09-07
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
If you can tell the difference between a smoke ring created with smoke and a "smoke ring" created with a curing agent, you're better than 98% of the folks out there.
I had a CBJ come up to me after a contest one day and inform me that he had given very low marks to one brisket entry he judged that day because it clearly had an artificial smoke ring. I asked how he knew it was created artificially and he told me that it HAD to be artificial because it was so deep and clearly defined in the meat. He then added that in the two years he had been barbequing, he had never created such a beautiful ring and so he was sure it just wasn't possible to create one naturally.

I just shook my head and I'm certain I heard the Spirit of Common Sense weeping in the distance.
Vince RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Smoke Ring lazybonesmoke1 Q-talk 23 12-28-2007 10:03 PM
smoke ring Vic C Q-talk 13 11-15-2007 09:08 PM
VERY sharp smoke ring edge - too much smoke? capnamerca Q-talk 13 10-11-2006 08:37 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts