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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 11-07-2004, 09:59 PM   #1
The_Kapn
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Default Brisket Competetors and Judges--Opinion please

Guys and Gals,
Trying new things here in the South for the Southern Brethren.
I braved 43 degress temp to start fire today , and wound up in "tropical wear" by 2 PM--we are suffering from the frigid cold here

Would really appreciate input on the pics of Brisket here for turn-in.
I tried something new--just wondering how it looks!

I think appearance preceeds and therefore influences taste in judging, but could be wrong. Tenderness is OK amd I know how to make it great! Flavor is fine and DF will make it wonderful!
I did not "rub". DF will add that layer of flavor and bark! This is just meat with AJ spray as a "starting point".

Pic was taken just on a napkin for testing, but you can see the thought.

Already plan to change dimensions to make them longer and thinner.
Want honest opinions- "attaboys" don't count for the cash and trophies
Thanks,
TIM
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Unread 11-07-2004, 11:33 PM   #2
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That's a hell of a smoke ring. First thought was - what the hell is that? How big are they? How thick?
I don't know about the fla bbq assoc, but in KCBS all entries appearances are scored before tasting begins. Put them into a container and think about appearance. IMHO, i think the whole catagory, at least for KCBS, should be renamed presentation. (I'm gonna get it now )

In my limited experience I found that once we were on to taste, i didn't think about appearance at all.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 03:31 AM   #3
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beautiful smoke ring. How long did you have it on and how much did it weigh.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 08:30 AM   #4
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Great smoke ring. How is the "tug test"? Grab each end and gently pull. Slight resistance, then pull apart.

Had one in judge class that fell apart, one was a rubber band, the the third was perfect.

And somehow, 5 pieces disappeared between the two pictures, so you be the judge on taste :)
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Unread 11-08-2004, 11:24 AM   #5
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what dimensions of slices in pics?

they look kind of narrow......
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Unread 11-08-2004, 03:36 PM   #6
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dont think i ever had a smoke ring like that.!! wow! Looks like ya used Anna Nicholes Lipstick!

But i no gets what you mean on YOUR changing dimension? The only dimension you can control is the thickness of the slice and i slice on the thick side of pencil thin. If you plan on cutting your brisket before cooking it, I wouldn't. Leave it the natural shape of the meat. The judges here will comment, but iwhen i considered trimming the brisket to shape before cooking, a judge warned me that that can be considered 'sculpting'(sp), which is not allowed in KCBS. Also, the way these turds shrink when cooking you can wind up with a meatball for turn in.


Next time ya take a picture for us, but something in it so we can scale it.. a fork or something.... or even better, a turn in box.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 04:08 PM   #7
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Phil
What you described is not sculpting.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 04:14 PM   #8
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We saw at least one entry at the state cookoff done this way -- we're experimenting! FBA has no garnish in the boxes so displaying brisket slices like this really pays off - assuming the taste and tenderness are there, too. We'll be playing KCBS rules week after next so all bets are off! :D

Nothing like bark all the way around with a good smoke ring - we discussed "sculpting" with a couple of very experienced judges and they all said this was in no way sculpting - no more than piling pulled pork in 9 seperate piles or using chunks from a shoulder to surround the pulled pork, etc.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 04:40 PM   #9
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Pork butt you have to cook it as a whole so trimming that far would be a problem but there is no rule with brisket. I would say that it is different enough that could cost points with some judges (the ones that think it could be illegal) as an example.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 04:50 PM   #10
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By sculpting, i meant trimming and cutting the brisket to be symetrical before cooking. Thats what I thought you meant when you said your going to make the slices "longer". At one of the competitions, I wanted to cut the ends off all the slices of briskets to make them even and fit in the box better.... and i was warned that it can be construed as sculpting and opted against doing it.. Just passing on what was presented to me.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 04:59 PM   #11
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I have a question, any leftovers? That looks damn good Tim. Well done.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 07:04 PM   #12
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Let me see if I can answer some of the excellent questions.

My goal with this experiment was to produce a sample that would fit neatly in the box, be organized, and also show "care and effort" by the Southern Brethren to create an attractive display.

This would not be sculpting as DF and I were trained. FBA instructor spoke at length about sculpting and this is not close according to his guidance. Also, on one of the KCBS sites is the text transcript of the training video or slideshow apparently used by KCBS. They seem to agree.
Plus, Jim Minion says it is OK :D :D :D

While judging FL State Championships, I was given 2 "horrible", 3 "quite good", and 1 that was awarded my only 10's of the meet- a perfect 10-10-10. It was prepped this way.
My 10 for appearance was not based on any preference. It was based on the effort and skill of the team in creating a balanced and beautiful display.
DF and I had talked about this technique before and I just wanted to try.

Sorry the scale isn't on the pics. They were produced for DF and I never thought to scale them out.
Smoke ring is above 3/8 and approaching 1/2 inch all around. Height about 3.5 inches, width about 5 inches.

The smoke ring surprised the tar out of me. I put my new basket in the StudeDera and did a 20% Oak chunk in charcoal burn. 1st time ever for "ole stick burner" me. Impressive smoke ring and 7.5 hours on "Cruise Control" for temps

Temps were 200-220, cook time in smoke was 6hrs + 15 min to 160 degrees, foil time was 1hr +15 min to 185, and cooler time was zero (see below)
These slices were produced from a chunk cut from the brisket- see the pic. These cuts were with the grain.
Then, I cut slices "full cross grain", but would probably use a "bias cut" next time (thanks KC).

Tenderness was "as expected" because I could not stand the suspense and sliced it with no coolering time I was weak :D
Just a tad tough, but would have coolered out wonderful, I am sure.
I pulled from heat, cooled a bit on the counter, sliced it up, took some pics, and then chowed down!!

Taste was my normal bland Brisket, but DF will kick that up just fine.

My comment about resizing was to reduce the height. Easy adjustment.

Did I miss any questions--OH Yeah, no leftovers, sorry :D

Thank's for the suggestions so far--any more would be appreciated.

TIM
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Unread 11-08-2004, 08:51 PM   #13
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Phil the judge gave you wrong info, sculpting is how you put the box together, if you were to shape as a $ sign or #1 to make designs in this manor it would be sculpting.

I would suggest going even futher up the brisket for this cut, go towards the point end another 3".
You can make the cuts shorter by cutting the bottom of the slice at the fat line where the flat and the point section meet. If your using a 9" box you can also go a little wider in width, if you start with 9" before you cook they will shrink enough to fit right. You could also trim the edges with a slight taper to give it amore natural look.

Nice idea hope you don't mind if I use it.
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Unread 11-08-2004, 09:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jminion
Phil the judge gave you wrong info, sculpting is how you put the box together, if you were to shape as a $ sign or #1 to make designs in this manor it would be sculpting.

I would suggest going even futher up the brisket for this cut, go towards the point end another 3".
You can make the cuts shorter by cutting the bottom of the slice at the fat line where the flat and the point section meet. If your using a 9" box you can also go a little wider in width, if you start with 9" before you cook they will shrink enough to fit right. You could also trim the edges with a slight taper to give it amore natural look.

Nice idea hope you don't mind if I use it.
Jim,
Great Input--thanks!

Feel free us use it--I'll PM you my address for the royalty checks

It is gonna take another couple of tests to satisfy me and DF, but I am intrigued with the idea.

TIM
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Unread 11-08-2004, 09:28 PM   #15
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Tim
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