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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 11-09-2010, 07:17 AM   #1
wormdrink67
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Default Question on turn in boxes for KCBS Comps

My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid. We were under the impression that the appearance scores will be docked if there is sauce on the lid from where it touches the meat when closed...is this true?
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Unread 11-09-2010, 07:35 AM   #2
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Not supposed to be scored down for it, but I wouldn't count on it.

Might want to work on getting the meat to sit a little lower in the box.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 07:48 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormdrink67 View Post
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid. We were under the impression that the appearance scores will be docked if there is sauce on the lid from where it touches the meat when closed...is this true?
The sauce on the lid shouldn't affect your appearance scores. The real problem lies in the fact that if your getting sauce on the lid when you close the box, you're changing the appearance of the meat you have in the box by smudging the sauce on it. As was suggested, try adjusting your garnish so the meat sits lower in the box.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 07:59 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormdrink67 View Post
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid. We were under the impression that the appearance scores will be docked if there is sauce on the lid from where it touches the meat when closed...is this true?
You should NOT be penalized for sauce on the lid. You never know if a volunteer may have stacked the box. But as stated above, if you get sauce on the lid, it could change the appearance of the product. For this reason, we always stress to Table Captains not to stack any boxes on top of each other.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 08:03 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
The sauce on the lid shouldn't affect your appearance scores. The real problem lies in the fact that if your getting sauce on the lid when you close the box, you're changing the appearance of the meat you have in the box by smudging the sauce on it. As was suggested, try adjusting your garnish so the meat sits lower in the box.

What he ^^^^ said.

In addition, if I'm short on time, and/or a box is really full I will try to take a damp paper towel with me to clean up the lid just in case there is some sauce from a rapid trip If a judge or two are attracted to the sauce on the lid they may not get a good look at the meat and score lower, unintentionally. Sauce on the lid may subconsciously lead a judge to focus on the sauce on the product that has been disturbed, and also lead to a slightly lower appearance score. Running a pan of sauce with the box usually isn't a viable option....

It's just an option I like to have when possible.
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Last edited by Jorge; 11-09-2010 at 09:13 AM..
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Unread 11-09-2010, 08:07 AM   #6
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Boxes aren't supposed to be stacked, yet we've seen multiple instances of it this season. I've talked to a Master Judge who says that he will base his evaluation on whatever non-smudged area remains visible, but I can't rely on all judges to do the same.

The fact remains that if some of the meat product's finish gets left on the lid, it's not the same product that I worked so hard on and took a picture of-- so the onus is on me to make sure my product's placement doesn't come up into the lid. There's a fine line between a full box, and one that'll give you lid trouble.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 08:30 AM   #7
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I have never judged down because of sauce on the box. Actually once the box is opened I rarely even look at the box. I focus on the meat inside, not what the box looks like.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 09:00 AM   #8
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Wow guys, thanks for all your help. It is much appreciated. Haven't gotten completely acquainted with the site yet, but again, your information has been a great help. Thanks so much.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 09:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wormdrink67 View Post
My team has had some problems this year getting our turn in box lids to close without getting sauce on the lid.
Your best option to avoid this is to adjust your garnish. I look at the box and determine wether it is shallow or not. I only use parsley and will squish it down for the meats that are most likely to hit the lid.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 09:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
Boxes aren't supposed to be stacked, yet we've seen multiple instances of it this season.
Most contests use plastic bread trays to move the entries from the sort table to the judge's table. You can't get 6 9 x 9's flat in a plastic bread tray - they're going to stack two on top of 4.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 11:59 AM   #11
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I don't look at the box lid during the few seconds I have to appearance score, I focus on the meat entry itself. Smudging may be a concern for you.

I have been able to find bread trays big enough to fix 6 without stacking. I just have to be picky about getting the style available here that has enough flat space to do that.
Neither our reps or I want to be stacking entries.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 03:27 PM   #12
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I was taught to build the box as tall as you can. So we will use chopped lettuce under the parsley in our brisket and pork boxes, making them taller. And we will use just parsly in our rib and chicken boxes, making them shorter.
We build each box differently.
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Unread 11-09-2010, 03:35 PM   #13
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I don"t have any idea how a particular judge is gonna respond to sauce on the lid.
I am not even sure how I would respond depending on the amount and overall condition of the entry.

So, I just avoid the "discussion" at comps by making sure my entries are clear of the lid. Then I do not have to worry about anyones interpretation or opinion.

Works for me--your milage might vary

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Unread 11-09-2010, 09:08 PM   #14
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I recently sat at a table with a judge that also competes. He stated that if there is smudged sauce on the inside lid he dings that entry on appearance. (I'm not sure what a ding is and how it affects the score) He felt the box was overfilled, that he's never seen boxes stacked and therefore it should be judged down. No amount of discussion was going to change his mind. I'd like to tell you that we don't judge down for smudged sauce on the inside lid but you take a chance of hitting a table with a judge like this guy. If you do...I'm sorry, we're not all like that!!
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Unread 11-09-2010, 09:17 PM   #15
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I judged this past weekend and some boxes the meat rubbed on top of box. I personally ignored it and tried to judge as if it didn't happen based on how then other pieces on top that were unblemished looked. Still hard to take your eye off one piece that stands out different.
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