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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 10-19-2010, 02:01 PM   #1
Munkee's Pit
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Default Tracking Judges

Just noticed this in the BOD minutes, and was wondering what others think about it.

Judges Tracking and Education program:
Merl Whitebook made a motion that beginning the weekend of October 15, 2010 that the judges tracking toggle on the scoring system be implemented.

That Contest Reps be required to input the CBJ number in the scoring program.

That all contest results will be evaluated utilizing the existing KCBS judges tracking program by the KCBS office and kept confidential.
That the results of each contest be evaluated, records maintained and the results be kept confidential, by KCBS.. That when it appears that a CBJ statistically is inconsistent in scoring (+/- 2 from the mean of the overall contest results,) at two or more contest, in a 12 month period, the CBJ will be mentored by the CBJ Chairperson. If inconsistent judging continues, a third time the CBJ will be suspended until completing a CBJ class at no cost. Should the problems continue then the matter shall be brought to the Board for removal or further action by the board. The motion was seconded by Ed Roith.

Following discussion Merl Whitebook called for the vote.

The motion was seconded by Don Harwell.
Vote:
10 yes, 0 no 0 abstentions
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Unread 10-19-2010, 02:06 PM   #2
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http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=94021
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Unread 10-19-2010, 03:25 PM   #3
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This was approved in this months meeting to be started this last (10/15) weekend if I recall...
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Unread 10-19-2010, 03:35 PM   #4
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I have no problem with judges being tracked. If nothing else, hopefully it moves to a computerized system where results get tabulated faster and cooks know why they got all 9's and one 5. If it is because the one piece was bad fine. but hate not knowing what that judge thought to score 4 points lower then everyone else. I just hope judges don't feel they have to score a certain way to not be punished per se.

Just my 2 cents.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 03:42 PM   #5
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So. If I give you a 777 I am safe for any score between 9 and 5. Give me a break. keith
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Unread 10-19-2010, 03:43 PM   #6
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While I also don't have a problem with the tracking of judges, I still have a problem with poor penmanship (IE a '9' being read as a '4').

We may find that we have judges complaining like we do about the scores...
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Unread 10-19-2010, 03:50 PM   #7
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What I would like to see is that judges are given a print out of there tables scores. That would be very educational to me to see how I compare to my fellow judges. Or let us all see scores before we turn them in so we can talk about why we scored things the way we did in real time while the samples are still in front of us. If Joe gave a nine on taste and I gave a 2 I can let Joe have a bite of the piece I got to confirm or tell me I am crazy. Tracking is not the answer real time real school education would help greatly.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 04:00 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mobow View Post
So. If I give you a 777 I am safe for any score between 9 and 5. Give me a break. keith
Not really, if the rest of your table is scoring the entry with 4s and 5s, you'd be more than 2 points outside the table average.

Why would a judge feel threatened by seeing how their scores compare to the table average? Why would a judge be concerned for the sanctioning body to see how their scores compare to the rest of the table? If all you're wanting to do is write down a number so your score falls close to the table average, why judge?

The best way to be "safe" is to take what you do seriously, and to properly judge an entry as you were trained to do. If you do that, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 04:12 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
Not really, if the rest of your table is scoring the entry with 4s and 5s, you'd be more than 2 points outside the table average.

Why would a judge feel threatened by seeing how their scores compare to the table average? Why would a judge be concerned for the sanctioning body to see how their scores compare to the rest of the table? If all you're wanting to do is write down a number so your score falls close to the table average, why judge?

The best way to be "safe" is to take what you do seriously, and to properly judge an entry as you were trained to do. If you do that, you shouldn't have anything to worry about.
Not really if 4 judges give a 5 one judge gives a 4 and I give a 7 the average is 5.166. If they all give 4's the chances of me giving a 7 are pretty slim. My point is this will not do anything to help with the problem. A 4 point spread is way to high. What is needed if we want to see improvement in consistency or at least understanding of differences in score is immediate feedback while the samples are in front everyone. I want my score to be the most accurate it can be. I have judged 25 contest and think I am getting pretty good at it but I don't really know as I never see my scores compared to others unless I do double duty as table captain. I do like the idea of giving me a copy of the tables scores so I can see how I am doing. I just think the tracking and having a KCBS person talk to you is not very helpful.keith

Last edited by mobow; 10-19-2010 at 04:18 PM.. Reason: add a thought
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Unread 10-19-2010, 04:34 PM   #10
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I don't see a problem with the scores being tracked or a rep sitting down and talking to a CBJ who had really off scores. All of suggestions brought up in the BOD will really help and are a good idea. However I still think they are focusing on the result of a problem and not really the problem itself. I still think the focus should be on updating the training class to prevent the problem in the first place instead of trying to correct the problem after the fact.

I personally could setup an appearnce test online in a matter of hours that would include pics of comp boxes and require new cbjs' to give each box a score and why they gave it the score BEFORE they judged a competition. Then you could focus on the really hard part taste and texture. Bottom line is the training class is probably a 6 at most.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 05:13 PM   #11
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KCBS is trying to address an issue that I guess members have brought to their attention...To that I say Bravo...
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Unread 10-19-2010, 05:15 PM   #12
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I judged the Autumn Blaze BBQ in Garnett, KS. last weekend and they informed us of this new tracking policy. I have mixed feelings about this and I would like to know more about why this change was needed. If someone starts giving fewer 8's and 9's, I believe we will be short changing the truly good teams out there. Kind of dumbing down to the average. I have one more contest this year in Butler, MO. and I plan on getting there early to talk to some of the other judges about this.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 10:32 PM   #13
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At an Iowa contest this year I sat next to Ed (Modelmaker) at the judges' table. There was an entry that was mostly pulled pork in the center with some chunks on the edges. We each gave it 8s & 9s while another CBJ gave this same entry 5s & 6s. He was questioned by the Rep about his scoring and he (the judge) said it was one of the worst pork entries that he had ever eaten.

Go figure.
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Unread 10-19-2010, 11:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie'48 View Post
At an Iowa contest this year I sat next to Ed (Modelmaker) at the judges' table. There was an entry that was mostly pulled pork in the center with some chunks on the edges. We each gave it 8s & 9s while another CBJ gave this same entry 5s & 6s. He was questioned by the Rep about his scoring and he (the judge) said it was one of the worst pork entries that he had ever eaten.

Go figure.
My first question for that judge would be "if it was that bad why didn't you give it a 2 or 3? Is the worst BBQ you've ever eaten really "average"?"
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Unread 10-20-2010, 01:57 AM   #15
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How would this pertain to a chicken score?

If judge X scored an 8 2 2 (for what that judge believed was raw chicken) would they be flagged for it? If the other 5 judges scored the chicken's taste and tenderness in the 7, 8, 9's should judge X really be flagged?

This definitely opens up a serious discussion and IMO isn't exactly fair to Judge X.
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