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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 09-16-2010, 08:57 AM   #16
luke duke
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That recipe was probably for a 12-14 lb packer, not a 7 lb flat.
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Unread 09-16-2010, 09:29 AM   #17
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The fine ground pepper may be the culprit, as noted, but check what KIND of paprika you had -- there are many. On the box or can, the list of ingredients will state if "extenders" are used (fillers). Some of these "extenders" can be flavors you don't want.

Good luck on the next try!

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Unread 09-16-2010, 09:58 AM   #18
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I have used the Malabar Fine Ground pepper and have found it to be very strong for some reason. It is stronger that the red/black/white whole peppers that I use freshly ground. I have used the Malabar as I would normally use "regular" pepper and found it to be much stronger, so I just reduced the amount I used. Since I ran out of the Malabar, I have not bought it anymore. As has been said, different stroke for different folks.
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Unread 09-16-2010, 10:31 AM   #19
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Thank you all for a the info. i will go with coarse ground next time. and consider the one part pepper two parts salt. like i said i was just throwing it together onthe spot, out of the book, in a pinch. The brethern rock. hope too see some of you at raystown lake this weekend
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Unread 09-16-2010, 10:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke duke View Post
That recipe was probably for a 12-14 lb packer, not a 7 lb flat.
Maybe thats why i cut the recipie in half and still didnt use half of it.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 02:44 AM   #21
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Also be aware of kosher salt measurements vs iodized salt measurements. Kosher is very coarse so if the recipe you are reading is for kosher (ALL of mine are) and use iodized or fine grain then you will be over salting.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 07:39 AM   #22
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Table salt is heavier by volume than Kosher salt e.g. a cup of
salt as table - 10oz, Morton - 7.7 oz, Diamond - 5 oz. Here is the best ratio I've found for converting between table and kosher also, this is based on Morton Kosher salt.

Convert Table - Kosher multiply by 0.85

Convert Kosher - Table multiply by 1.2
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Unread 09-17-2010, 09:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiko View Post
I think the culprit was that the pepper was fine ground. There is a huge difference in the total weight of a 1/4 cup of fine ground pepper vs coarse grind.
Yep...that's the problem. I don't really understand it, but that's what Elizabeth Karmel points out in "Soaked, Slathered, and Seasoned". She has a restaurant in NYC called "Hill Country BBQ", or something like that. Anyway, she knows something or two about TX bbq, and pointed out that on a trip to Kreuz Market, she had a pork chop that was studded with great big chunks of coarse bp and was afraid it might be too spicy. She says that Rick Schmidt anticipated her queastion and said all of the heat and bite in pepper is in the dust. She says she was skeptical but now it's one of her favorite teaching demos.

She calls this "Rick Schmidt's Real Texas Market Rub"

1 1/2C kosher
1/4 C coarsely gr. Tellicherry BP
1 TB cayenne
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Unread 09-17-2010, 09:32 AM   #24
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I always took the grind of the salt into consideration. I usually use coarse ground Kosher salt. I measure it out right as per the recipe, then grind it after i measure it out. So as not to damn near double the amount of salt. It seems to mix better with the rub and penetrate the meat a little better. I have never really considered that with pepper. But will start to do so now.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 09:51 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiko View Post
I think the culprit was that the pepper was fine ground. There is a huge difference in the total weight of a 1/4 cup of fine ground pepper vs coarse grind. Same as salt, which is why most people use kosher instead of fine ground salt.

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Unread 09-17-2010, 06:06 PM   #26
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Jason,

You have enough good helpful answers but I would like to add my silver dollar to the table.

This is my mixture I settled on finally after many briskets. It will get you to South Texas Brisket standards every time.

1 and 1/2 cups Salt
1/2 cup Black Pepper (20-23 mesh black pepper)
1 Tablespoon Cayenne

If you use kosher, you will get a shell like crust that is kind of flaky and hard.

I recommend table salt which is what most use in Luling, Lockhart, Taylor, Elgin, and here in Bulverde at my home etc.

If you use more black pepper, you will get the Opah's Pepper Coated Beef Jerky (Fredericksburg) taste effect which is what I call what you experienced already.

I do hot and fast on my cooks which is something else you should be doing for this kind of rub to work (see Donnie aka Funk et al)

Let us know what happens brethero.

Bulverde
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Unread 09-17-2010, 06:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean "Puffy" Coals View Post
Might just be a not so good rub recipe. Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks and what not. And, I thought "real" texas brisket used coriander, but I might be wrong.
Coriander = Cilantro seeds so it would make sense on Texas brisket.
I can see black pepper being over powering in a rub. Try cutting with Better Than Bouillon Beef paste. It makes a great crust on brisket.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 06:48 PM   #28
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I will scroll past all the responses as most do not have the experience I do with this style.

I will work backwards--- and assuming you are not just -- well, a nut case, and something is wrong with your taste buds... I assume something went wrong. I will go with the most common culprit first...

foil - do not foil... period, end of story, neither should you use butcher paper, pans, plastic or anything at all to separate the smoke and heat from the meat.

Next is -- perhaps you are naturally a "underdoer." Now this is not as common as what I write below BUT I will include it here because its affect is nearly the same.

Pepper Usage - Pepper can be used in ridiculously liberal amounts if the process is done correctly. You must also have large amounts of salt... the pepper when placed on brisket has to do two things.... seep into the meat, and only salt will carry it in, and also, BE EXPOSED TO THE HEAT AND SMOKE DIRECTLY FOR A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT OF TIME IN ORDER TO MILD OUT.

Anyone that has seen my brisket video knows how much I use. The brisket is literally DUMPED into a bucket then slapped on the smoker. But as it cooks, and with NO spritzing or mopping to knock it off it tastes fine. Why? The heat and smoke milds it alllllllllll out. Throw it in foil or a pan or the oven and cover it and you retain all that pepper in the juice and it stays hot. In addition, if you are one of those that really does not cook the brisket by the proper standards of flat tenderness then you are pulling them before they are done enough to mild out.

Second, the problem could be your rub. Now I used large grain rubs.... Not too large like those thick chunks of cracked pepper, but something other than fine. Here is why... and the rule applys to salt as well.... HOWEVER I can think of three restutrants tahtn use a mix like regualr salt, onion powder, fine pepper, medium pepper and ceyenne and do fine.

If the grains are too small you lose control of what is going on the meat. the smaller the surface area the more of anything you can get on the meat before you realize its too much.

And also there could be something else about your process that ****ed the brisket up... for instance I knew one idiot who had a ribbon from one of those KCBS New England pagents and not darn much else that used an injection and the injection was screwing up his rub mojo.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 06:50 PM   #29
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I have pretty much quit making rubs. I just shake on the salt until I think it is enough and shake on the pepper, garlic powder or whatever I feel like that day and rub it in. But I agree, 2 to 1 salt to pepper would be my rule of thumb.
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Unread 09-17-2010, 09:39 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulverde View Post
Jason,

You have enough good helpful answers but I would like to add my silver dollar to the table.

This is my mixture I settled on finally after many briskets. It will get you to South Texas Brisket standards every time.

1 and 1/2 cups Salt
1/2 cup Black Pepper (20-23 mesh black pepper)
1 Tablespoon Cayenne

If you use kosher, you will get a shell like crust that is kind of flaky and hard.

I recommend table salt which is what most use in Luling, Lockhart, Taylor, Elgin, and here in Bulverde at my home etc.

If you use more black pepper, you will get the Opah's Pepper Coated Beef Jerky (Fredericksburg) taste effect which is what I call what you experienced already.

I do hot and fast on my cooks which is something else you should be doing for this kind of rub to work (see Donnie aka Funk et al)

Let us know what happens brethero.

Bulverde

Thank you very much for your silver dollar. I am actually looking forward to cooking a Texas Style brisket now and correcting my screw up instead of rushing out for some plowboys right away. Even tho i friggin love the Bovine Bold. Im feeling challenged and hopefully next week i will have a much better product.
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