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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 08-12-2004, 11:10 PM   #16
jminion
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Robert
We know they are out there, but they swore to judge within the rules.
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Unread 08-13-2004, 03:27 AM   #17
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Great post and great blog. It will definately become regular reading.
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Unread 08-13-2004, 07:25 AM   #18
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Robert,
Good to know what you observed.

Jim,
Good to hear your insights and what the KCBS is looking for.

Mike
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Unread 08-13-2004, 08:28 AM   #19
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Robert,
I like your responses and Jims rules knowledge, so I need to ask.

Greg and I are also certified, but never judged.

You mentioned the guy made a "design" with Chicken like a smile and horns.

We learned this would get a Disqualification on presentation for trying to "influence" appearence through a design.

What is the actual rule, and did anyone judge them that way at your table that you know of?
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Unread 08-13-2004, 09:24 AM   #20
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I have to comment on the judge(s) that gave low points to hot and spicey entries. To me, this is an unfair bias. I would understand it if he meant unnecessary hot, meaning so hot that it overpowers the flavors. Hope that this is just a regional thing.
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Unread 08-13-2004, 10:58 AM   #21
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I was contest organizer for the Connecticut contest and was expecting to be off duty once the Contest Reps showed up, a day of hanging out with the teams and drinking their beer. Not to be :(

I had two alternate judges signed up and thought I was covered. For whatever reason, there were four no shows and I got sucked into judging.

I was seated at Rob's (BrooklynQ) table and agree with most of his observations. First of all, the chicken skin sucked. If you can't do it right, go skinless! The breast entry was dried out and tasteless.

I was the judge who questioned the slab of ribs entry. The sauce was painted on so heavily that is was impossible to discern individual pieces. The Contest Rep said it was OK, and I ended up scoring it a 9 in appearance. If I had been the Rep, I would have DQd it. Unfortunately, I was also the judge who got the dried out riblet from the bottom. That killed them on my score card. I don't remember a discussion about smoke rings.

Most of the pork entries were mediocre. Bland.

There was only one passible brisket entry. Most were dried out.

Jim
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Unread 08-13-2004, 01:08 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willkat98
You mentioned the guy made a "design" with Chicken like a smile and horns.

We learned this would get a Disqualification on presentation for trying to "influence" appearence through a design.

What is the actual rule, and did anyone judge them that way at your table that you know of?

Here's the rules:
20. Garnish is limited to chopped, sliced, shredded or whole leaves of fresh green lettuce (no kale, endive, or red tipped lettuce) and/or common curly parsley, flat leaf parsley or cilantro. Any entry not complying with this rule will be given a one (1) on APPEARANCE.

21. Marking of any kind of the meat or container will not be tolerated. This will include but is not limited to painting, sculpting, or decorating. No aluminum foil or stuffing is allowed in the container. No toothpicks, skewers, foreign material or stuffing is permitted. Any entry not complying with this rule will be given a one (1) in APPEARANCE, a one (1) in TASTE, and a one (1) in TENDERNESS/TEXTURE.

What I was taught in my judging class was that a design could be used as a way to identify a particular team and so it should be DQ'd.

The presentation didn't really register as a identifiable design at the contest. At least not to me. Only when I looked back on it and tried to find words to describe it, did the presentation become the horny smilely face. Someone more astute than myself may have picked it up there.

Jim? What's your take on it. You saw it too.

No one judge can DQ an entry. It needs approval by the contest rep.

One other area that was questioned by a cook when he saw the empty containers, was the use of iceburg lettuce as oppposed to green leaf lettuce. He stated that green leaf lettuce is a particular breed of lettuce and that iceburg is a breed unto itself. He felt that iceburg should have DQ'd that submission. The rep said that iceburg was indeed a green leaf lettuce. I wonder if this has come up before?
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Unread 08-13-2004, 01:51 PM   #23
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Marking can be a tough call, if you make an X, that's marking but a circle is OK from what I'm seeing. If the chicken was arraigned to make a face that could have been called marking very easily, not something I would be willing to do as a cook. As a rep I may have to DQ after seeing it. Tough call sometimes.

Chicken skin can be done correctly, I turn breasts quite often. They have done very well for me, a number of first and top 5 finishes, even a 6th at the Royal Open against 365 turn-ins a few years ago. Jim McGrath is right if you can not get the skin tender or chrisp you are better off turning in skinless. Tip on chicken breasts don't allow the internal to get over 160º internal, I take it off the cooker at 157º. It will have tender skin and be very moist.
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Unread 08-13-2004, 02:26 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynQ
The presentation didn't really register as a identifiable design at the contest. At least not to me. Only when I looked back on it and tried to find words to describe it, did the presentation become the horny smilely face. Someone more astute than myself may have picked it up there.

Jim? What's your take on it. You saw it too.
I didn't notice anything about it that I would consider marking. I thought it was a rather dumb presentation, but don't recall how I scored it. I did score low on taste and tenderness. The breast meat was tasteless and dry.

Jim
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Unread 08-13-2004, 03:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigdogSmoker
I have to comment on the judge(s) that gave low points to hot and spicey entries. To me, this is an unfair bias. I would understand it if he meant unnecessary hot, meaning so hot that it overpowers the flavors. Hope that this is just a regional thing.
Bigdog, this was a theoretical discussion. None of the food I had was particularly spicy. It was just something I thought people should be aware of. When I was trained, we were told to judge the meat, not the sauce.
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Unread 08-13-2004, 03:47 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcgrath
I don't remember a discussion about smoke rings.
Jim
It was after the rib judging. I think you were off having a smoke.
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Unread 09-12-2006, 10:50 AM   #27
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Robert,
I'm new to the Brethren and thus just getting around to some of the previous posts. Thanks for this one. I have never participated in a competetion but am certainly interested. As a matter of fact, I'll be attending one in Covington, Ga. on Oct. 13-14. I'm really looking forward to watching the folks work and now that I've been smoking a while, asking a lot of questions. Thanks again, I'm off to your blog.
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Unread 09-12-2006, 10:57 AM   #28
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Wow. Talk about bringing up the past. I hope you enjoy the blog. Thanks.
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Unread 09-12-2006, 11:14 AM   #29
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Rob, thanks again for all the insight. Sound like it was a good learning experience.
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Unread 09-12-2006, 04:41 PM   #30
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That was a fun event right there.... can I brag just a little? We took home the 1st place trophies for ribs AND brisket that day, 2004 right?, and ended up with Reserve to Purple Turtle's Grand (1.12 point difference). Gregg (PTCC) was by himself except for one mentoree and he won the whole damn thing on a coupla WSM's!! That was also the event where I first met Poohbah, and that was lunchmeat's first ever Reserve! The GC is still elusive to us, but we have hope... Thanks for the trip down memory lane ... I think I'll go dust off those trophies now that I am remembering the work that went into winning them.
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