ブタ
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 08-16-2010, 08:54 PM   #16
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake Dogs View Post
I'm also of the opinion that chicken ain't BBQ either.
If there were to be a BBQ uprising, this is the one I'd get behind.
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 08-16-2010, 08:56 PM   #17
luckyduk
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 05-11-10
Location: Denver,Iowa
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantSquatter View Post
Mod Note : Thread re-directed from Q-Talk to Comp

It's ethical as it's not against the rules and the judges are adults and are taking a chance eating foods of unknown origins, storage, methods etc....I'd be just as concerned eating BBQ meats cooked by a bunch of strangers, some of whom have little to no experience in proper food handling and preparation as I would about what they pump into the meat or rub on top of it. If you're concerned about what you eat, comp BBQ judging is one of the last places you should be.

competition BBQ is already a gross misrepresentation traditional BBQ and any form of moisture retention seems fitting alongside mush of the other wacky things associated with high level comp BBQ, such has parsley beds, parkay and butter baths, sugar braising in foils, chicken thigh pillows, mufffin pans, etc.
Totally agree! FWIW if I am cooking for people or just at home for myself and not for comp practice, I do not use any injections with any "other chemicals" besides a simple brown sugar brine sometimes.
__________________
Justin- Lucky's Q bbq team
Lucky's Q and Catering
2 Stumps Stretch's
Stumps 3X5 offset with warmer
luckyduk is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 08-16-2010, 09:01 PM   #18
smoken don
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 08-02-07
Location: cleveland tx.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I'm sure we all do alot of things to meat at comps. I would really like to see rub,meat and ,heat....OK,maybe sauce,and...well never mind.
__________________
Smoken don
Gator Entertainer
26" Weber Kettle
uds and proud of it
Never confuse kindness for weakness
smoken don is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 09:20 PM   #19
Butcher BBQ
is one Smokin' Farker

 
Butcher BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-03-07
Location: Chandler,OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Do you think that the use of moisture enhancement by means of chemical injections, such as sodium phosphate, [/B]a store bought stock, or homemade stock, such as beef broth in competition meat is ethical?

Do you think that the use of moisture enhancement by means of any injection, such as sodium phosphate, a store bought stock, or homemade stock, such as beef broth should be allowed in competition BBQ?




I have been trying to find something like this to compare this to. I can't figure out if you're asking more about the use of advancement of technology entering BBQ or flavor enhancement (other than the flavor given to the animal other then what God gave it).
__________________
www.ButcherBBQ.com

"Trust Your Butcher"
Often Imitated, but never Duplicated
Butcher BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 09:32 PM   #20
Butcher BBQ
is one Smokin' Farker

 
Butcher BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-03-07
Location: Chandler,OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Maybe I should just answer, I don't see a problem.

One of the best cooks that ever walked the stages at the AR and the Jack told me this year that competition BBQ has changed. I ask how do you mean, he replied that the day of showing up with a good piece of meat, and being able to cook it properly to win is gone. With all the new style techniques in flavors, cooking methods, creative box displays, and the internet. The old ways of just showing up and having the best way to have ribs and brisket cooked to the perfect doneness is gone. He followed that with all the classes out there that many folks don't know how to test their own methods just know what they were taught.

Sorry about all the rambling just wanted to say Nothing will ever be what the Good Ole Days were or we would all be still turning a crank on the side of the phone instead of reading this with in seconds of me posting. Just my thoughts.
__________________
www.ButcherBBQ.com

"Trust Your Butcher"
Often Imitated, but never Duplicated
Butcher BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 08-16-2010, 09:43 PM   #21
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcher BBQ View Post
with all the classes out there that many folks don't know how to test their own methods just know what they were taught.
This is a very astute observation. And if a cook hasn't learned how to problem-solve and comparison-test methods, what will they do when the curve has moved beyond them -- take another class?
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 08-16-2010, 10:16 PM   #22
ZILLA
is Blowin Smoke!
 
ZILLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: Universal City, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butcher BBQ View Post
Do you think that the use of moisture enhancement by means of chemical injections, such as sodium phosphate, [/B]a store bought stock, or homemade stock, such as beef broth in competition meat is ethical?

Do you think that the use of moisture enhancement by means of any injection, such as sodium phosphate, a store bought stock, or homemade stock, such as beef broth should be allowed in competition BBQ?




I have been trying to find something like this to compare this to. I can't figure out if you're asking more about the use of advancement of technology entering BBQ or flavor enhancement (other than the flavor given to the animal other then what God gave it).
I'm really not trying to steer this in any one direction and i guess it's both , David. Two questions intertwined so to speak. Actually it was my wife that asked this question to me. She is an NP and faculty at the UT Health Science Center here in San Antonio in the Nephrology dept (Kidney Disease). She is always very concerned about sodium as it relates to kidney damage. She is also involved in research which is where the ethical part comes in. Informing folks is key the ethical conduct during a study.

Now all that being said I do like all the benefits of injecting and even as one of your customers I do sometimes wonder if I should tell others what they about to eat. You have to admit that these are not normal ingredients in any traditional BBQ and that may be what some think they are getting. Just a question and nothing more.
ZILLA is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 10:25 PM   #23
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Is there really anything (sodium, MSG, phosphates) in BBQ that isn't in about a zillion other processed foods?
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 10:35 PM   #24
Smokedelic
Full Fledged Farker
 
Smokedelic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-24-06
Location: Tulsa, OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
This is a very astute observation. And if a cook hasn't learned how to problem-solve and comparison-test methods, what will they do when the curve has moved beyond them -- take another class?
Probably...it's the quick fix, but it won't keep you progressing along the curve. IMO, success in this hobby of ours has become a moving target, and classes do a great job of getting you honed into what it takes "right now" to win. But what happens when you're cooking next year or even 6 months from now and the "target" has moved?
__________________
Mike - Team Enoserv
Smokedelic is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 10:43 PM   #25
ZILLA
is Blowin Smoke!
 
ZILLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: Universal City, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
Is there really anything (sodium, MSG, phosphates) in BBQ that isn't in about a zillion other processed foods?
Our food is not processed and is supposed to represent an artisinal product.... You agree with that I know. I for one am trying to minimize processed foods.
ZILLA is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 10:49 PM   #26
ZILLA
is Blowin Smoke!
 
ZILLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: Universal City, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I agree Mike! That target done moved on me just this past weekend down in Victoria.
ZILLA is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 08-16-2010, 10:49 PM   #27
Smokedelic
Full Fledged Farker
 
Smokedelic's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-24-06
Location: Tulsa, OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Zilla, if your concerns are health-related, I think there are bigger health issues with the food we cook than a little sodium phosphate, or MSG, or any other chemical that might be used to enhance meat. There are tons of foods that we eat every day that have greater amounts of chemicals than what is used in competition bbq, IMO.

If your concern is potential allergies of those that judge to the chemicals being used, then I'd suggest that those judges find another hobby besides judging food. It's no different than someone who has a nut allergy signing up to judge a cake contest. If the potential risk to a judge is present, it would be prudent for them to not put themselves in that situation.

If your concern is straying from the traditional ideas of BBQ by the use of chemicals to produce award winning meat, then I offer it is no better, nor worse than the practice of cooking prime briskets, wagyu or akaushi beef, or duroc, berkshire, or kurobuta pork in order to win.

...but that's just me
__________________
Mike - Team Enoserv
Smokedelic is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 08-16-2010, 10:51 PM   #28
ZILLA
is Blowin Smoke!
 
ZILLA's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-01-05
Location: Universal City, Texas
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
Zilla, if your concerns are health-related, I think there are bigger health issues with the food we cook than a little sodium phosphate, or MSG, or any other chemical that might be used to enhance meat. There are tons of foods that we eat every day that have greater amounts of chemicals than what is used in competition bbq, IMO.

If your concern is potential allergies of those that judge to the chemicals being used, then I'd suggest that those judges find another hobby besides judging food. It's no different than someone who has a nut allergy signing up to judge a cake contest. If the potential risk to a judge is present, it would be prudent for them to not put themselves in that situation.

If your concern is straying from the traditional ideas of BBQ by the use of chemicals to produce award winning meat, then I offer it is no better, nor worse than the practice of cooking prime briskets, wagyu or akaushi beef, or duroc, berkshire, or kurobuta pork in order to win.

...but that's just me
I agree.
ZILLA is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-16-2010, 10:58 PM   #29
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Well, there are several points there that would need agreed-upon definitions.

How processed is processed? I know people who consider pasteurization or cooking in any form to be "processing", but we're not serving raw meat. I know other people who think that storebought rotisserie chicken isn't processed, even though it's shot full of everything possible.

Is competition BBQ supposed to represent an artisanal product? What makes a product artisanal? What would be considered an artisanal pit? Are we back to holes dug in the ground?

If someone is limiting processed foods for specific health concerns, they know to inquire as to their proposed food's origins and ingredients -- that's personal responsibility. Then again, we have people whose idea of limiting processed food is to lay off beer and Velveeta for a couple days a week.

So I suppose that even if definitions were agreed upon, various BBQ products would fall at all points along a hypothetical line, and we'd have an awful lot of room for discussion -- enough to last all winter!
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 08-17-2010, 06:31 AM   #30
Butcher BBQ
is one Smokin' Farker

 
Butcher BBQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-03-07
Location: Chandler,OK
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZILLA View Post
I'm really not trying to steer this in any one direction and i guess it's both , David. Two questions intertwined so to speak. Actually it was my wife that asked this question to me. She is an NP and faculty at the UT Health Science Center here in San Antonio in the Nephrology dept (Kidney Disease). She is always very concerned about sodium as it relates to kidney damage. She is also involved in research which is where the ethical part comes in. Informing folks is key the ethical conduct during a study.

Now all that being said I do like all the benefits of injecting and even as one of your customers I do sometimes wonder if I should tell others what they about to eat. You have to admit that these are not normal ingredients in any traditional BBQ and that may be what some think they are getting. Just a question and nothing more.
Thats what I was sure your thought was when I was reading your 1st post. My point is a lot like what Mike posted, the target is moving and you need to move with it and the need to inject is only one step in the cooking process. It won't give you a win, but it helps. Now with that said I'm sure there is die hard golf players that don't like the new and improved clubs and shoes. I didn't mean for it to sound like I was attacking you just pointing out that everything changes and at some point it will change from what we currently know as comp bbq and we won't like it.

This is a good thread and will be good to hear what other think. So for now
__________________
www.ButcherBBQ.com

"Trust Your Butcher"
Often Imitated, but never Duplicated
Butcher BBQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
injection question the pit crew Q-talk 6 12-31-2011 06:49 AM
Injection Question cwo2lt Q-talk 3 09-19-2011 08:23 AM
Injection question chihuachsund Q-talk 6 03-28-2011 07:49 AM
Ham Injection Question thomasjurisd Q-talk 4 12-31-2010 06:04 PM
Injection Question SmokeNride Q-talk 14 04-30-2010 08:38 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts