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Reason for the stall

  • Thread starter greg of the BGE
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greg of the BGE

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My son read about cooking the pork shoulder we got on Saturday and he read about the stall that meat goes through. I guess the collagen doesn't start to cook until 165. Once the meat hits 165 all the cooking energy goes to cooking the collagen down. As soon as that is cooked the meat will fly up real fast in temp. It can get to 200 in less than an hour after being stalled for 2 or 3 hours at 165.

I love having a curious son. Although he's in his last year in Chemical Engineering so he's into that kind of stuff. The chemical side of cooking is what got him interested in cooking more and he has taught us all sorts of good info like that.
 
Thats cool Kind of like when water turns to Ice it takes a lot of energy to change states from liquid to solid.

Edit: Latent heat is the concept close to BBQ not the same though. (Had to google to get correct term).
 
That really doesn't answer the question at all. I have never read an explanation about the stall that really made sense. BBQ Hyperbole I say......
 
The meat we cook is more than just meat. It's fat, meat, collagen, and more. It all cooks and breaks down at different temps and different lengths of time. Think of Collagen is a heat sink that doesn't start to work until the meat around it gets to 165. Once it has surrounding meat at 165 all the extra heat energy goes to cooking the collagen instead of the meat. Once the collagen cooks down the energy goes back to cooking the meat.
 
greg of the BGE said:
The meat we cook is more than just meat. It's fat, meat, collagen, and more. It all cooks and breaks down at different temps and different lengths of time. Think of Collagen is a heat sink that doesn't start to work until the meat around it gets to 165. Once it has surrounding meat at 165 all the extra heat energy goes to cooking the collagen instead of the meat. Once the collagen cooks down the energy goes back to cooking the meat.
Click to expand...

Bunko!
 
Let's not forget about the importance of the conversion process from collagen to gelatin.... Here is snip from one of my articles...


Meat is made of strands of proteins and when you add heat (energy) to a protein you are breaking down it's structure. This relaxes the strands of protein making it more flexable and tender. However, if you add too much heat or too much heat too fast, the protein won't relax the way you had planned, and the meat can be tough. A good example is a steak.... they are pretty tender to start with so they can be cooked at higher temps for a short period of time. As a steak moves from raw to rare to medium rare it gets more tender as the protiens relax. As it passes through the medium, then medium well, then into well done range, the strands of protiens are tightening up, and moisture is getting squeezed out of the meat, so it gets tougher the more it's cooked. The same thing can happen to pork chops or white meat on chickens or turkey.

One thing you will notice when barbecuing heavier meats high in fat like brisket and pork shoulder is a stall in internal temperature during the cook. This "plateau" will happen around 160°, and sometimes takes several hours. Then the internal temperature will begin to rise again. The plateau happens because collagen in the meat is being converted into gelatin. When this happens, we get a tender and moist piece of meat that is worth the wait.

If you are really watching your internal thermometer, you might even notice a drop in the internal temperature. The reason behind the drop in meat temp is basically because the energy from the heat is going into the conversion process instead of into the meat. Think of it this way, the flow of liquefied collagen & fat is stealing heat out of the meat. As the conversion comes to an end, the heat starts going back into the meat.
 
thirdeye said:
Let's not forget about the importance of the conversion process from collagen to gelatin.... Here is snip from one of my articles...


Meat is made of strands of proteins and when you add heat (energy) to a protein you are breaking down it's structure. This relaxes the strands of protein making it more flexable and tender. However, if you add too much heat or too much heat too fast, the protein won't relax the way you had planned, and the meat can be tough. A good example is a steak.... they are pretty tender to start with so they can be cooked at higher temps for a short period of time. As a steak moves from raw to rare to medium rare it gets more tender as the protiens relax. As it passes through the medium, then medium well, then into well done range, the strands of protiens are tightening up, and moisture is getting squeezed out of the meat, so it gets tougher the more it's cooked. The same thing can happen to pork chops or white meat on chickens or turkey.

One thing you will notice when barbecuing heavier meats high in fat like brisket and pork shoulder is a stall in internal temperature during the cook. This "plateau" will happen around 160°, and sometimes takes several hours. Then the internal temperature will begin to rise again. The plateau happens because collagen in the meat is being converted into gelatin. When this happens, we get a tender and moist piece of meat that is worth the wait.

If you are really watching your internal thermometer, you might even notice a drop in the internal temperature. The reason behind the drop in meat temp is basically because the energy from the heat is going into the conversion process instead of into the meat. Think of it this way, the flow of liquefied collagen & fat is stealing heat out of the meat. As the conversion comes to an end, the heat starts going back into the meat.
Click to expand...

This still just tickles the surface of what is going on. It Still leaves one with only a very vauge understanding. The explanations of supercooling or superheating distilled water on you tube are still better. For that matter why an Ice Cream Freezer works is better explained on most internet sites than this is.

We're not done here.....
 
I think it has something to dowith the latent energy required for changing the phase of fat, gristle, collagen etc from solids to liquids.

the physics is explained below:

Heat absorbed or released as the result of a phase change is called latent heat. There is no temperature change during a phase change, thus there is no change in the kinetic energy of the particles in the material. The energy released comes from the potential energy stored in the bonds between the particles.


Q = mL
 
Mark said:
I think it has something to dowith the latent energy required for changing the phase of fat, gristle, collagen etc from solids to liquids.

the physics is explained below:

Heat absorbed or released as the result of a phase change is called latent heat. There is no temperature change during a phase change, thus there is no change in the kinetic energy of the particles in the material. The energy released comes from the potential energy stored in the bonds between the particles.
Q = mL
Click to expand...

Lets say for the discussion that we have a perfectly trimmed brisket flat with no surface fat.....The energy released from stored potential energy is in what form? OK, so this change of phase is effecting the five most common types of collagen in meat tissue which makes up 95% of all collagen in meat, and in our case the cell walls at the point they are actually touching each other, parts of the vascular system and so on..... What about the rest of the tissue in the muscle? Why doesn't it change temp? A brisket is not 100% collagen.
 
Mitch said:
My head hurts. It is what it is. It's like a traffic jam. It doesn't matter why you're stuck
Your still sitting there.
Click to expand...

Basically, I agree with this. It does what it does. As long as it's done right and tastes great, WHO CARES!:becky:

Still, though, it's cool to read this kind of stuff here and then I get to sound like a farking GENIUS when explaining to my friends/family.:heh:

THANKS FOR THE THREAD!
 
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