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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 07-05-2010, 07:50 AM   #1
Brian in Maine
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Default Tried something new with brisket.

Yesterday I smoked a 6# brisket flat fat side down at 250 * to an internal temp of 165*. I the put it in a tightly sealed foil pan with a cup of beef broth fat side up, and cooked at 350 until 190*. I took it out of the foil re-seasoned with rub, and put on the grate (still at 350*) fat side down, (Planning to take it to 195*) to firm up the bark.
This is where it gets strange. The internal temp started to drop. over 35 minutes it dropped 10*, to 180*. At this point I re-foiled the flat, and it finally topped off at 195*. The brisket cam out good tasting, but a little dry. Next time I think that I will take it all the way to 195, then re-season and put it back on to firm up the bark.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 11:03 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Maine View Post
Yesterday I smoked a 6# brisket flat fat side down at 250 * to an internal temp of 165*. I the put it in a tightly sealed foil pan with a cup of beef broth fat side up, and cooked at 350 until 190*. I took it out of the foil re-seasoned with rub, and put on the grate (still at 350*) fat side down, (Planning to take it to 195*) to firm up the bark.
This is where it gets strange. The internal temp started to drop. over 35 minutes it dropped 10*, to 180*. At this point I re-foiled the flat, and it finally topped off at 195*. The brisket cam out good tasting, but a little dry. Next time I think that I will take it all the way to 195, then re-season and put it back on to firm up the bark.
Hmmm...that's a bit odd...next time start it off @ 350 (for the whole smoke)...foil @ 170 ish...then cooler @ 195 ish (or when your probe slides in like butter)...
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Unread 07-05-2010, 11:56 AM   #3
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Hi JD. My hope was to tighten up the bark. and adding a little rub at the end really added to the flavor of the bark. I think that the next time I will do the whole cook at 350*, but then reapply rub, and put it back on the grate for ten minutes or so.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 02:10 PM   #4
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I do not see one thing at all strange about that or where it is coming from.

You do what you suggest you are going to do and I guarantee you will have probably the best Brisket you can get in your area. But nevertheless dry as hell-- although less dry than last time.

Hey, its okay though - I made some ribs last night that i cannot figure out whether they are awful or so outside the box they may be the new trend.

now back to your brisket....

1. forget the IT. Some briskets are done to perfection at 168, more at 180, even more at 185 and a few, very few at 195 (meaning that the most are past their prime) and only good because you still have all that liquid in the foil.

2. at the very least, not considering the ring set techiniques) i am serious... starting off wicked hot makes since in the beginning on most meats instead of at the end.

3. your process is very close to the old traditional method of famous trailhands like Jetton who boiled or simmered first, then grilled the meats on pits the rest of the way. Many on this forum who are old enough to remember large BBQs being done this way remember the great Q. However... Jetton never cooked the meat passed its done point ever for any reason... which is what you did. Probably at 180 I bet the brisket was prime for a nice hold as it converts into something of a wonderous nature. the meat will often lower or slow in its climb during the stall as the tenderizing process goies through its strokes.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 02:17 PM   #5
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My Brisket has probably (from what I am told repeatedly) the best bark around. This is due to NO shortcuts. I do hot and fast but at the lower ends like 270-300 average. if I did 350 I am afraid I would have to cover it with foil then ruin the bark then start again like you are intending to do. So I modify. If you want 350 most of the way... then I suggest foiling. Its just 270-300 with no foil seems to be the chit if you are doing so many that foil is not practical... which is what I do.

I can say one thing that is weird though... as many know I do wrap in plastic to hold my briskets for convenience. This locks in the moisture but also destroys the bark I work so had for. No problem, I think it has to do with my rub... but once I lay those puppies out on the counter to cool (so I can handle them) the bark snaps back.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 02:23 PM   #6
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Brian, when the Brisket was in the foil pan at 350, it was probably cooking at closer to 375 or so. So when you took it out of the pan and onto the fire it was actually going to a cooler place...
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Unread 07-05-2010, 02:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
My Brisket has probably (from what I am told repeatedly) the best bark around. This is due to NO shortcuts. I do hot and fast but at the lower ends like 270-300 average. if I did 350 I am afraid I would have to cover it with foil then ruin the bark then start again like you are intending to do. So I modify. If you want 350 most of the way... then I suggest foiling. Its just 270-300 with no foil seems to be the chit if you are doing so many that foil is not practical... which is what I do.

I can say one thing that is weird though... as many know I do wrap in plastic to hold my briskets for convenience. This locks in the moisture but also destroys the bark I work so had for. No problem, I think it has to do with my rub... but once I lay those puppies out on the counter to cool (so I can handle them) the bark snaps back.
I see that you are cooking packers. have you cooked flats with your method?
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Unread 07-05-2010, 02:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian in Maine View Post
I see that you are cooking packers. have you cooked flats with your method?

Why would someone use a flat only...other than not being able to get one.

I have done flats because one time someone supplied them for me... that was the last time I ever let anyone dictate to me what to get. Flat area special breed all there own. I can only imagine how dried out the meat was now knowing you did all this with a flat.

Now when I did flats it was at a lower temp that day. I have done them super high speed, like at 300 before and I find they are a little better.

In the same way Jetton would once look at guys using packers for BBQ (which he shifted to just before he died) many of us see using flats as futile. Plus, the onces I see barely have any fat to determine which side goes down in any case.

Jetton shifted to packers because he thought they were "self basting."

Flats have very little room for that so unless you are going to keep them in a bath of their own or added juices, or inject the chit out of them, then lickety split and rest is a good way to go.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 03:15 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
My Brisket has probably (from what I am told repeatedly) the best bark around. This is due to NO shortcuts. I do hot and fast but at the lower ends like 270-300 average. if I did 350 I am afraid I would have to cover it with foil then ruin the bark then start again like you are intending to do. So I modify. If you want 350 most of the way... then I suggest foiling. Its just 270-300 with no foil seems to be the chit if you are doing so many that foil is not practical... which is what I do.

I can say one thing that is weird though... as many know I do wrap in plastic to hold my briskets for convenience. This locks in the moisture but also destroys the bark I work so had for. No problem, I think it has to do with my rub... but once I lay those puppies out on the counter to cool (so I can handle them) the bark snaps back.
Interesting reading!
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Unread 07-05-2010, 05:27 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
Why would someone use a flat only...other than not being able to get one.

I have done flats because one time someone supplied them for me... that was the last time I ever let anyone dictate to me what to get. Flat area special breed all there own. I can only imagine how dried out the meat was now knowing you did all this with a flat.

Now when I did flats it was at a lower temp that day. I have done them super high speed, like at 300 before and I find they are a little better.

In the same way Jetton would once look at guys using packers for BBQ (which he shifted to just before he died) many of us see using flats as futile. Plus, the onces I see barely have any fat to determine which side goes down in any case.


Jetton shifted to packers because he thought they were "self basting."

Flats have very little room for that so unless you are going to keep them in a bath of their own or added juices, or inject the chit out of them, then lickety split and rest is a good way to go.
The only packers I've seen in the BBQ deprived state of Maine are at Wally World, and the ones that I've seen haven't looked that great. I asked a butcher if he could get packers for me, and he said that he could, and it would cost about $3.00 per pound, so it looks as though flats it is.

If you re-read my first post, I said that the flat was a little dry. This piece of meat definitely is not going into chili. I had a brisket sandwich for lunch that I really enjoyed. As I said before I am just trying to put some snap, and some of the flavor that simmers out while it is in foil, back into the bark, and any suggestions are welcome.

PS I usually can find a flat at Sam's that has a good fat cap that I use to shield the meat from the heat.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 05:30 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Brian in Maine View Post
I asked a butcher if he could get packers for me, and he said that he could, and it would cost about $3.00 per pound, so it looks as though flats it is.
how much are you paying for the flat ?
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Unread 07-05-2010, 05:37 PM   #12
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Flats at Sam's are usually in the $2.80-$3/lb range here in KC. Can't imagine them being cheaper in Maine.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 06:14 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by MilitantSquatter View Post
how much are you paying for the flat ?
I paid $3.46/# for the one I cooked yesterday.
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Unread 07-05-2010, 06:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brian in Maine View Post
I paid $3.46/# for the one I cooked yesterday.

Then why wouldn't you consider paying $3/lb for the whole packer from your butcher ?

are you concerned about not using what you don't eat after it's cooked ?
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Unread 07-05-2010, 06:50 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantSquatter View Post
Then why wouldn't you consider paying $3/lb for the whole packer from your butcher ?

are you concerned about not using what you don't eat after it's cooked ?
Basically the amount of waste from a packer. From what i've read there is usually a large difference in the price of a flat verses a packer. My flats are usually tender, and juicy. I am just trying to tweek the recipe.
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