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Unread 05-24-2010, 10:53 PM   #1
PimpSmoke
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Default Appearance score ?'s

Help me out understanding two of my entries last weekend.

Brisket I probably would give myself a 6 on appearance. The slices were too thick, a bit messy and even though I swear there was no TQ involved my ring looks fake as hell. There was also not enough usable point to cut burnt ends from. There is also a hole in the garnish at the top of the box.

Pork I would probably go a 7. There are no slices because my slicer with the steroid sized muscle came out crappy. Otherwise I think the meat looks a little over sauced. Also, I think the chunks may be a bit big.

So my question is, why would I get appearance scores like

Brisket: 8,8,9,6,7,9, was it the fake looking ring or the thick slices that turned judges 4 and 5 off possibly?

My pork was judged pretty consistently at a 7 with two 8's. So how to fix beyond anything else I already mentioned?


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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:01 PM   #2
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That ring looks no faker than some we've turned in.

Since the scoring was inconsistent, it occurs to me to ask what was the overall experience level of the judges? We've found that when there are a number of new judges, they often dish 6s and 7s on food that is clearly 8s and 9s to the more experienced eye, just because they haven't seen enough boxes to know what constitutes good appearance and 6s and 7s feel "safe" to them. Is that a possibility, do the taste/tenderness scores bear that out?

On the other hand, I'm not loving the big chunky rub stuff on the top of the slices that has wandered down onto the faces. Your adorable little supervisor should have set you straight on that one!
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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:03 PM   #3
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Yes, their T/T scores were lower than the other judges.

I don't sauce my brisket, and I could have cleaned those off, I agree.

Crunch time got the best of me.
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:25 PM   #4
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One thing I see, though it's always hard to tell in a pic, is that a couple of the slices look like they got turned around.

When I have turned in brisket, I like to make it look like the whole muscle was just "fanned out".

Counting front to back, it looks like slices 5 and 8 are swapped end for end. That's just what it looks like to me. I also agree with Diva on the "chunks".

That's one helluva smoke ring Pimp.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harbormaster View Post
That's one helluva smoke ring Pimp.
The reason they were maybe turned, and I didn't notice, is because my cutting board almost got knocked off the table as I was slicing.

And I don't know about the ring. Might be because I had them really close to the exhause vent on the SKD?
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 05-24-2010, 11:50 PM   #6
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The smoke ring looks "FAKE" judges are told to NOT take Ring into consideration.They can't help it.It happens.The brisket looks enhansed to me.Just sayin.I had to judge at a table last weekend with 3 first time judges.The table captain was a PhB and had to do double duty as a judge.It's the luck of the draw.The captain MADE one judge fill out comment cards because he was giving everyone 4's & 5's.We found out that he considered himself a PROFESSIONAL BBQ cook.Like I said,they try to make it fair but sometimes it just goes that way.FYI,the critical judge had NEVER won a call!
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Unread 05-25-2010, 12:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
The smoke ring looks "FAKE" judges are told to NOT take Ring into consideration.They can't help it.It happens.The brisket looks enhansed to me.Just sayin.I had to judge at a table last weekend with 3 first time judges.The table captain was a PhB and had to do double duty as a judge.It's the luck of the draw.The captain MADE one judge fill out comment cards because he was giving everyone 4's & 5's.We found out that he considered himself a PROFESSIONAL BBQ cook.Like I said,they try to make it fair but sometimes it just goes that way.FYI,the critical judge had NEVER won a call!
Those briskets were dry aged 3 weeks by my butcher and given to me in paper. Here's a pic of me and my Pit Biootch trimming them.

So, lay off the smoke? How in the hell do I keep the ring from forming that much? Foil REALLY early?
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.

Last edited by PimpSmoke; 05-25-2010 at 02:00 PM..
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Unread 05-25-2010, 12:19 AM   #8
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I can't tell you what to do.Since the TQ ring has become common knowledge a lotta judges score DOWN on an eccessive ring because it can be artifically created.MOST briskies have a ring on only ONE side.Yours was all way around.Just sayin maybe the judges thought you were enhancing.JMHO.I do not consider ring, only tenderness and taste.Appearence is a category.A lotta newbie judges are told NOT to judge ring but it is human nature.
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Unread 05-25-2010, 12:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss View Post
I can't tell you what to do.Since the TQ ring has become common knowledge a lotta judges score DOWN on an eccessive ring because it can be artifically created.MOST briskies have a ring on only ONE side.Yours was all way around.Just sayin maybe the judges thought you were enhancing.JMHO.I do not consider ring, only tenderness and taste.Appearence is a category.A lotta newbie judges are told NOT to judge ring but it is human nature.
I understand completely. But if you look at the ring, you can tell my cooker was stuffed, as the right side ring is pretty weak. That was the side that got jammed against the wall of the cooker.
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So here we are in my paisley crib, what you want to eat?
"Ribs"...ah, Latoya, I don't serve ribs.
Better be happy that dress is still on,
I heard the rip when you sat down.
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Unread 05-25-2010, 06:36 AM   #10
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FYI, there were at least one and at some tables two first time judges at every table at the Dells contest.
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Unread 05-25-2010, 06:51 AM   #11
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First, it seems to me that the meat is sitting fairly high in the box. Is it possible that
in transit the meat came in contact with the top and mussed it up a bit? Honestly,
looking at the pork, IMHO there could be a little more pork in there and a little less
greenery, however the pork looks very appetizing. I'm thinking 8. The over-sauced
should play into the taste, not the appearance (to me). Brisket looks fine, but yes,
also the ring appears fake, even though it's not. We have the smoke ring on just
the one side (scraping the fat off of the bottom before turn-in). We do foil, but only
after 4.5 - 5 hours, so ours is also fairly pronounced.

I wouldn't change anything too dramatically. Really. Like in pork, for appearance,
money muscle shouldnt have any bearing whatsoever. Taste probably, but not
appearance. It's not required.

Sounds to me like newby judges...
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Unread 05-25-2010, 07:33 AM   #12
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I think that the boxes look fine, they could be tightened up a little, but they arent far off..

What I really think is the issue is that we are seeing the results of the rash of new BBQ judges that seem to love to give out 6's and 7's...I really dont know what the problem is, but it seems like I have seen a lot of complaints this year from teams where 4-5 judges give 8's and 9's and then one or 2 judges come in with 6's and 7's even on appearance...
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Unread 05-25-2010, 08:01 AM   #13
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Pardon the pun, but how doyou pull the pork in that fashion?
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Unread 05-25-2010, 08:01 AM   #14
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Brother Pimp, I feel your pain...

Over all, I think you are on the right track with the boxes, as others have said, they just need to be tighter...

As for the smoke ring, the only thing I can think of that would help in the end would be to dip them in the juice from your foil. While it won't change the color it does seem to 'mute down' the brightness and make it look a little more even.

You did good bro!
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Unread 05-25-2010, 08:16 AM   #15
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I blame it on pitmasters. Great show, but I think it's the reason for an influx of judges this year. Don't get me wrong, I think it's awesome for kcbs, but it's going to take all of the new judges a while to discern the differences between average que and great que. Back to your question, pimp (great talking with you again by the way) I would definately wrap it earlier or just take the tq out of your rub :). If it happens again a quick sit in it's own jus will darken the meat and make the ring less noticable. Let me know if you decide to do another contest this year. I'm still trying to work out our schedule. Pete
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