May 12, 2010 KCBS Bod agenda posted

[Bunny]

Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC

At this point, maybe it doesn't effect you. Who's to say that at some point in the future it won't get to a point where it does? Some people are just more interested in making OUR organization a great organization I guess. And KCBS means more to me than to have that kind of attitude about it. I guess if you understand where it all came from, it is more meaningful. That's why many people are up in arms over the bullchit going on now...

It does affect members everytime there is a decision. We have to remember who our customers are who are the contest organizers. A BOD decision affects that through monies, rules, regs which you the cooker abide by. Then there are the reps that follow decisons and rules, regs, etc, which you also abide by. Not saying that's a bad thing, but it does affect every member cooking a KCBS contest. It's good to get input from the cookers because without them there would be no contest organizers, no judges or reps! Decisions made by the BOD affect everyone in the organization. Trickle down.

[PimpSmoke]

Originally Posted by motoeric

I guess the question then is how long are you going to keep hoping that things will be fixed?

If you are not happy with certain aspects of the KCBS, how long will you attempt to enact change to no avail before you step away?

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).

You don't need any sanctioning body to have an event be qualified for the invitationals. You can create a spreadsheet for scoring. You can make judges slips at Kinko's.

Eric

While I don't necessarily wish for the KCBS to go away, this has been accomplished by a lot of organizations, and this is a good point.

For example ASA softball. ASA doesn't necessarily HAVE to sanction a league for it to utilize "ASA" rules. A lot of leagues and competition organizations adopt rules that have been written previously, especially if they are well known rules. All that would be needed is a rule written in for a "umpire" of sorts to enforce the rules.

[BBQchef33]

Originally Posted by PimpSmoke

While I don't necessarily wish for the KCBS to go away, this has been accomplished by a lot of organizations, and this is a good point.

For example ASA softball. ASA doesn't necessarily HAVE to sanction a league for it to utilize "ASA" rules. A lot of leagues and competition organizations adopt rules that have been written previously, especially if they are well known rules. All that would be needed is a rule written in for a "umpire" of sorts to enforce the rules.

I wish this was true.

Try running an unsanctioned event with "KCBS rules" and prepare yourself for a cease and desist letter from there legal department. Small contests that cant afford sanctioning fees, rep fees, lodging, travel, etc are not allowed to use "KCBS RULES", scoring, etc...Not even a place mat...

so..... they use a sharpie and a piece of paper for place mats, go to kinko for judges slips and use excel spread sheets for scoring. All this instead of using something tried and true to grow to improve the event to the point where they ARE able to afford sanctioning and the like. Instead, they just have to hack it.

I know the rules, i know the logic behind it, and understand tweaking one thing or another gets past the issue. I have heard all the point/counter points.. and im not opening up the can of worms.. Just stating my view of the bridge and I just dont agree with the whole concept.

anyway.. sorry.. back on topic.

[Plowboy]

Originally Posted by motoeric

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).

I think you are overly minimizing the effect of a sanctioning body. A standard set of rules is pretty important across contests.

[PimpSmoke]

Originally Posted by BBQchef33

I wish this was true.

Try running an unsanctioned event with "KCBS rules" and prepare yourself for a cease and desist letter from there legal department. Small contests that cant afford sanctioning fees, rep fees, lodging, travel, etc are not allowed to use "KCBS RULES", scoring, etc...Not even a place mat...

so..... they use a sharpie and a piece of paper for place mats, go to kinko for judges slips and use excel spread sheets for scoring. All this instead of using something tried and true to grow to improve the event to the point where they ARE able to afford sanctioning and the like. Instead, they just have to hack it.

I know the rules, i know the logic behind it, and understand tweaking one thing or another gets past the issue. I have heard all the point/counter points.. and im not opening up the can of worms.. Just stating my view of the bridge and I just dont agree with the whole concept.

anyway.. sorry.. back on topic.

KCBS is a "non-profit", correct?

Like I said before, I like sanctioning, I like KCBS, but to play DA here, they don't really have a leg.

"Kansas City style rules apply" is all that is needed.

[Ford]

Originally Posted by motoeric

I guess the question then is how long are you going to keep hoping that things will be fixed?

If you are not happy with certain aspects of the KCBS, how long will you attempt to enact change to no avail before you step away?

I think that the larger question is, why do we need a sanctioning body? They lend credibility to new events, but if an organizer has run the same event well for 4 or 5 years I would believe that the competitors and judges would have respect that track record regardless of sanctioning (or lack thereof).

You don't need any sanctioning body to have an event be qualified for the invitationals. You can create a spreadsheet for scoring. You can make judges slips at Kinko's.

Eric

We know the KCBS will guarantee the money. Without them the Dells would have paid well over half in credits at the outlet mall and the sponsors restaurant. It can happen anywhere.

We know the scoring system. If another unsanctioned contest uses the same numbers and advertises that then the KCBS can sue.

We know that the reps will do the best they can to amke sure the turn in process is run correctly and that blind judging is truly blind and that the local team is not identified to local judges.

The KCBS has proven to give us all of this. I've cooked unsanctioned cotnests and some were good and sosme bad. You're taking your chances. And I've been competing for over 10 years.

[PimpSmoke]

Originally Posted by Ford

We know the KCBS will guarantee the money. Without them the Dells would have paid well over half in credits at the outlet mall and the sponsors restaurant. It can happen anywhere.

We know the scoring system. If another unsanctioned contest uses the same numbers and advertises that then the KCBS can sue.

We know that the reps will do the best they can to amke sure the turn in process is run correctly and that blind judging is truly blind and that the local team is not identified to local judges.

The KCBS has proven to give us all of this. I've cooked unsanctioned cotnests and some were good and sosme bad. You're taking your chances. And I've been competing for over 10 years.

This is also a good point (not to discredit Pooh Bear).

So, as members how do we vote? I've asked before, how do we AS MEMBERS make a difference?

[falldownbbq]

Matt from Jacked up for president

[Jeff_in_KC]

Originally Posted by PimpSmoke

So, as members how do we vote? I've asked before, how do we AS MEMBERS make a difference?

I thought before that you just VOTE. But I've learned that those who can't get along, can't cooperate, don't respect each other and govern like 10 year olds aren't the biggest problem. The biggest problems are the members who don't bother to vote them out. With 22% voter turn-out like this year, the problems are relaxing in their seats and getting comfortable while those of us who care about KCBS are losing patience and getting frustrated. So you make a difference by getting the word out everywhere and anywhere you can that members MUST utilize their right and responsibility and VOTE.

[Ford]

Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC

The biggest problems are the members who don't bother to vote them out. With 22% voter turn-out like this year, the problems are relaxing in their seats and getting comfortable while those of us who care about KCBS are losing patience and getting frustrated. So you make a difference by getting the word out everywhere and anywhere you can that members MUST utilize their right and responsibility and VOTE.

Jeff

With all due respect a 22% voter turnout for a not for profit organization is a tremendous voter turnout. I think it represents probably close to a 1000 cooks and that's probably half the cook teams who are members. The others cook 1-2 contests locally and don't care about TOY or anything else. Local elections - school board, etc often don't get a 20% turnout.

Also while we are very passionate about all this the vast majority of members do not know what is going on and many read the bullsheet and maybe judge one contest and do a little backyard cooking. None of the issues before the BOD impact them. It's typical of an organization this size. And no offense to judges but a number of them join to do 1 contest and get free food.

Last - a couple of Brethren ran last year and I believe all the members here voted for our candidates. BUT that wasn't enough. It says while there's lots of discussion there just are not enough members here to do it. More Brethren need to join KCBS. Over the next 3-4 months there should be a campaign here to get Brethren to join the KCBS. That might be the best chance for making change with our votes.

[C-Town Smoker]

KCBS is "not for profit" right now...if it was changed to a "for profit" would that make anything better?

[SirPorkaLot]

Originally Posted by Jacked UP BBQ

On a level of how does this entire thing really affect you???????? Me, it doesn't. I use the KCBS for what it is. It is a governing body of BBQ comps, thats all. To get all worked up about stuff that goes on in a board room about stuff that will not tamper with your personal life is stupid. I am not sure why anyone would even want to be on the board, you will never make everyone happy and all you will do is make more enemies then friends. My take on the entire thing is let them do what they do and continue on with your life. There were BBQ comps before the KCBS and there will be after if something were to happen. Stick with BBQ for what it is, not for politics and nonsense.

Exactly!

KCBS is a sanctioning organization for BBQ comps, nothing more, nothing less for the most of us.
It is one of many and yes it happens to be the biggest right now, but with all the in-fighting, it won't be for long.

KCBS board seems to have populated itself with pompous a$$es, that are not really interested in furthering BBQ, but furthering KCBS - at the cost of it's core constituents - the cookers.

I have cooked in a first year non-sanctioned contest last fall that was better organized, better funded, and better attended that a KCBS comp I attended 2 weeks ago.

I am a first year (and last) member of KCBS, and just don't quite "get" what all the fuss it about.

I agree with an earlier poster that there is a lot of opportunities out there to grow this sport, and there is a lot more money funneling into it - but an organization that is headed by an informal BOD (contractor's involved in BOD meetings? what a joke..The organization might as well me renamed the MMA BBQ Association) is not the type of organization that can take advantage of this.

If KCBS wants to see what a small family run organization can do if steered properly can do - they only need to look to the beginnings of NASCAR.
If they want to see what a badly run organization can do - they only need to look in the mirror.

[Ford]

Originally Posted by SirPorkaLot

If KCBS wants to see what a small family run organization can do if steered properly can do - they only need to look to the beginnings of NASCAR.
If they want to see what a badly run organization can do - they only need to look in the mirror.

Amazing. Lets compare a for profit to a not for profit. Lets compare a small tightly run family busienss to a national organization.

By law they are run differently and there's just no comparison.

Mods: delete if you want but I'm jsut sick and tired about people bashing the BOD all the time. They are volunteers. They are all trying. It's time people stop being the problem and start being the solution. Within the by-laws of the KCBS we need suggestions and options not this constant bashing.

[SirPorkaLot]

Originally Posted by Ford

Amazing. Lets compare a for profit to a not for profit. Lets compare a small tightly run family busienss to a national organization.

By law they are run differently and there's just no comparison.

Mods: delete if you want but I'm jsut sick and tired about people bashing the BOD all the time. They are volunteers. They are all trying. It's time people stop being the problem and start being the solution. Within the by-laws of the KCBS we need suggestions and options not this constant bashing.

Not bashing at all - I welcome your input, as I am sure the BOD welcomes all input - good & bad.
Just calling it as i see it.

I have run for-profit organizations with million's in annual revenues for years, i am quite versed in how for-profit organizations are managed - both good & bad.

I admit I do not have any experience running a non-profit, but do recognize a poorly run organization when I see one.

If you had been at the American Bass Anglers BBQ Tour (KCBS sanctioned event) I was recently at, you would have been as shocked and dismayed as I was, at what a mockery the ABA made out of the the KCBS portion of this event.

Volunteers who get little recognition for what they do - I am familiar with though, and they have my sympathy.
A BOD of a homeowners' association can't even make simple decisions without in-fighting and back biting going on, I am not sure how we expect an organization with as many members and revenue stream as KCBS to do it.

Which is why I am a proponent of remaking the largest BBQ sanctioning organization in the US into something that works.
I don't have a road map or a plan on how to do it, I just don't see it continuing to function (dysfunction is more accurate) as it is currently.

Lots of great posts and opinions here. I am a member of KCBS, a CBJ and I voted in the 22% of voter turnout. All I'm going to say here is I'm currently writing an article for the National Barbecue News on behalf of the National Barbecue Association inviting EVERYONE to join our organization. While plenty of us are also involved with KCBS, there are members of MABA, MBN and numerous other sanctioning bodies and non sanctioned contest organizers. Smoker manufacturers, rub and sauce manufacturers and bottlers, you name it, it's covered in this association. Just wanted all to know that there is a place out there to belong to a bbq family without limiting yourselves to a sanctioning body. Hope you'll all consider it, I've benefited tremendously from being a part of their board and as a business member. Unlike a lot of organizations, we're expected to be on both the receiving and giving end as members and it seems to make our world go round. More explanation in my article, hope you'll all read it.