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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-28-2010, 03:40 PM   #1
Brewmaster
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Cool What would your reaction be?

I was at a contest recently and the team next to me was disqualified on their pork entry. Later after the contest I talked to the team members about the reason they were disqualified. They proceeded to tell me it was for using kale and endives. So I asked them if they used kale and endives on their chicken and rib entry. They said they did, and not only at this contest. They used kale and endives on all four categories at a previous contest. At that point I was getting frustrated because his previous contest was the same contest I competed in. So I looked up the results and they placed in the top ten in one category. Not that it made a huge difference in the outcome of the contest but the fact that this got past six table captains and thirty-six judges before getting caught is what disturbed me. But the worst part of the whole situation was that he told me he was a CBJ himself. Now I could see a situation where the rules were kind of vague or a little gray, but this rule is spelled out in black and white. At what point do they take away someone’s CBJ status? What other rules are being broken and missed? I want to say I am very disappointed in a system that I spend a lot of time and money involved in.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 03:46 PM   #2
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Nate, I agree that there is some issue with the CBJ certification. The fact that they hold certification classes right before a competition just for that competition so they can say it's completely filled by CBJs kinda missrepresents the judging. Doesn't mean they are qualified CBJs.

We got burned by a questionable 'cbj' judgement in Washington. Reps said they tried to talk with him about it but he wouldn't budge. To me, KCBS ought to be tracking reps history and ability if they are going to put their name behind the person. They also ought to be able to take action on someone if they can see the person really shouldn't be judging, whether it be removing their status or asking them to re-attend training.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 03:54 PM   #3
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I have been told that any CBJ can attend any judging class for free. My thought is that some kind of continued education should be mandatory to keep your CBJ status. If is means you attend a class every year to find out the rule changes or some kind of online class. There seems to be a disconnect somewhere. I mean really....36 judges and 6 table captains can't recognize kale and endives?
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Unread 04-28-2010, 04:41 PM   #4
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Have to agree with this one. I can understand (kind of) a new judge missing this, but not a full table full AND a table captain!
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Unread 04-28-2010, 05:05 PM   #5
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This is pretty surprising, considering they spend more time in a CBJ class teaching them how to identify illegal garnish than they do teaching how to properly judge the meat.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 07:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokedelic View Post
This is pretty surprising, considering they spend more time in a CBJ class teaching them how to identify illegal garnish than they do teaching how to properly judge the meat.
I just went through Mike Lake's CBJ class this past weekend, and probably 90% of the class time was spent on how to judge the meat. There was a small portion devoted to illegal garnish, but examples of what each illegal garnish looked like was not provided.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 07:36 PM   #7
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KCBS should take some lessons from the FBA, not sure if I am correct on this but I do believe the FBA also tracks judges as well

FBA Judge Requirements
  1. Maintain an active FBA Membership.
  2. Judge a minimum of one FBA sanctioned contest every 12 months. (note: failure to achieve this requirement means you will have to attend an FBA Judge's Training Seminar prior to judging again.)
  3. Be present for the Judges Briefing at any contest your are confirmed to judge. Failure to be present means that you will not judge that contest. Check-in for judges starts at 9am on the day of the contest and ends at 9:30am. The Judges Briefing begins at 9:30am, followed by the Table Captains Briefing.
  4. If you fail to show for three contests that you are confirmed to judge without notifying either the Organizer or one of the Reps, you will be removed from the list of judges for future contests.
  5. Judge all four categories at any contest you are seated at for judging.
  6. During the contest, you are not allowed to visit with the cook teams. Doing so will cause you to be removed from the judging that day.
  7. After the contest, you may visit with the cook teams, however you may not discuss any part of the judging including your scores. Doing so will cause you to be removed from the list of judges for future contests.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 07:43 PM   #8
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Default Illegal Garnish

Hmmmmmm..............Isn't it about the meat?? As if it's not hard enough getting the stuff in the box !
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Unread 04-28-2010, 07:54 PM   #9
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I know it's a dead horse, but, no garnish, no problem.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 08:48 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthole View Post
Nate, I agree that there is some issue with the CBJ certification. The fact that they hold certification classes right before a competition just for that competition so they can say it's completely filled by CBJs kinda missrepresents the judging. Doesn't mean they are qualified CBJs.

We got burned by a questionable 'cbj' judgement in Washington. Reps said they tried to talk with him about it but he wouldn't budge. To me, KCBS ought to be tracking reps history and ability if they are going to put their name behind the person. They also ought to be able to take action on someone if they can see the person really shouldn't be judging, whether it be removing their status or asking them to re-attend training.
on top of what proportion of the judges are CBJs, what if KCBS reported what the average number of events the judges have judged? the further the average is from 1, the more confidence that could be placed in the judges for that event. this might make it a little more clear, as 100% CBJ doesn't seem to mean all that much. just a thought
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Unread 04-28-2010, 09:08 PM   #11
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Seems like a stupid risk for that team to continue using it and jeopardizing getting DQ'd in each category. Lot of money out the door for DQ.
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Unread 04-28-2010, 09:25 PM   #12
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Seems like a stupid risk for that team to continue using it and jeopardizing getting DQ'd in each category. Lot of money out the door for DQ.
You are correct, but he (CBJ Judge) did not realize it was illegal until he got his fist DQ after 6 prior turn-ins. Needless to say, his brisket turn-in did not have any kale in it.
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Unread 04-29-2010, 06:50 AM   #13
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Maybe it's just that the judges are really doing their job and that is judging the meat and not the garnish. I hear judges all the time saying they really don't notice the garnish......maybe it's true? So it got past all those judges till they came across that one judge that pays attention to the garnish. Just sayin'
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Unread 04-29-2010, 07:00 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NRA4Life View Post
I just went through Mike Lake's CBJ class this past weekend, and probably 90% of the class time was spent on how to judge the meat. There was a small portion devoted to illegal garnish, but examples of what each illegal garnish looked like was not provided.
I took my cbj class from Mike too, several years ago, and there were no examples of illegal garnish except in one turn in box they slipped in a small piece of red tipped parsley?
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Unread 04-29-2010, 07:13 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ_Mayor View Post
Maybe it's just that the judges are really doing their job and that is judging the meat and not the garnish. I hear judges all the time saying they really don't notice the garnish......maybe it's true? So it got past all those judges till they came across that one judge that pays attention to the garnish. Just sayin'
I didn't think of it that way, and I respect your point of view. But you still have 6 table captains not judging the box that should be looking for marking and illegal garnish among other things. Maybe I'm wrong but I don' think the table captains are there to be one of Barker's Beauties.
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