ブタ
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 04-14-2010, 09:55 AM   #1
G$
is One Chatty Farker
 
G$'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Conclusion from these Rib Scores

I was able to cut 6 nice ribs from the center of one rack last weekend, and turned them in for judging. (No pictures - we were short handed). The taste from the rack was 'OK', and not a change from what we typically do, they looked very nice, and in my opinion were cooked just about perfect.

Here are the scores. What can I conclude?

JUDGE 1 JUDGE 2 JUDGE 3 JUDGE 4 JUDGE 5 JUDGE 6
9 8 8 - 9 9 9 - 7 8 8 - 8 5 8 - 8 5 6 - 8 7 8
G$ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 10:03 AM   #2
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

With taste being the heaviest weighted score, having more than one 5 will kill you dead. Is there an "elbow" in your flavor profile -- is there one element that sticks out, out of balance with the others?
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 10:13 AM   #3
JohnJ
On the road to being a farker

 
JohnJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-29-09
Location: Show Low, AZ
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

New judge maybe? Too salty possibly?
JohnJ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 10:15 AM   #4
G$
is One Chatty Farker
 
G$'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
With taste being the heaviest weighted score, having more than one 5 will kill you dead. Is there an "elbow" in your flavor profile -- is there one element that sticks out, out of balance with the others?
Not knowingly. I don't perceive them to have any overtly strong flavor component.

In fact, if you asked what would need to be changed on taste, I'd probably say I need to add an "elbow" - that our tast may lack some pop in some form (probably sweetness).

I could accept two 5s is all the rest of the scores were marginal. Maybe they are.

I could also accept all marginal scores if indeed the lack of zing is an issue. But having a 8,9,8 to go with a pair of 5s stumps me a little. And since one of those 5s came from a judge also delivering a 6 on texture, when the ribs seemed spot on, makes me scratch my head more.

Here is the frustration, and probably my own answer: We have always cooked our ribs the same way, from the beginning, with no intentional changes to the method. Our first 3 contests, I believe we got three consecutive top 5s. It clearly is no longer working now, and has not been for quite some time. It is time to change.
G$ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 10:21 AM   #5
nthole
Babbling Farker

 
nthole's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: St. Louis
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

3 judges that are cookers and understanding cooking, 2 judges that don't?

It would be nice if KCBS was actually watching for judges like this and recording scores judges turn in that seem outside of the norm for a table and question the judges if trends appear.
__________________
Neil -- "Easy Bake Master"
NB Bandera [gone to heaven...conveniently located in Long Island, NY]
Rebel 23, WSM A, WSM B, UDS, Easy Bake Oven
Pork Pistols BBQ
MOFO Illuminati

MOINK...It's what's for linner.
nthole is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 10:24 AM   #6
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

That's the sore spot. When you realize that they're not going over like they were, it's time to go back to the drawing board. You can take cold comfort in the fact that as soon as you get the ribs "fixed", one of your other meats will go south on you.

I also think that we should just crown Lisa as the Permanent Rib Queen and not let her play anymore.
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 10:25 AM   #7
G$
is One Chatty Farker
 
G$'s Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-01-05
Location: Southern Arizona
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
I also think that we should just crown Lisa as the Permanent Rib Queen and not let her play anymore.
Easy for you to say! You can afford to let someone else win a category here and there!
G$ is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 11:02 AM   #8
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Wow, that's a big variance. BIG. I dont quite know what to make of it either. You're
right, perhaps need an elbow, but that's a double edged sword. Mind you, this comes
from someone who enjoys judging, cooks, and competes with a mildy spicy and mildly sweet flavor base. Even then, mine can be too spicy or too sweet for some. 9 to 5,
damn.

A while back, having judged and competed in different comps, I really became a fan
of MIM/MBN's scoring. I'm not a fan of any that use a 1-10 (or 1-9) scoring system
because of numeric variance. Meaning, I'm not a fan because a few 5's (not that
it's ever happened) in with a series of 8's will kill you. MBN doesn't have that. 7
if it's a spitter, 8 is plain non good, 9 is good, and 10 is great. All 9's doesnt get
you demolished. An 8 in the mix doesnt kill terribly, but isn't good.

One 10 in the mix overcomes an 8 scored. However, in the large variation scoring
systems it takes a lot of 9's and 10's to overcome a 5 or 6...

Oh well, no need to suggest replacing a scoring system, right?
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from darn near anywhere)
Started competing in chili cookoffs back in the 1990's and have competed in more than I care to count. I became a CBJ in MiM in 2005, then MBN and in GBA in 2010. I've probably judged 130+- BBQ comps (sanctioned and unsanctioned) over this time. That said, I really enjoy competing more than I enjoy judging, and hope to get back to doing 4 or 5 a year in the near future.
Lake Dogs is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 12:59 PM   #9
Desertdog
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 07-22-08
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nthole View Post
3 judges that are cookers and understanding cooking, 2 judges that don't?

It would be nice if KCBS was actually watching for judges like this and recording scores judges turn in that seem outside of the norm for a table and question the judges if trends appear.

I think KCBS should REQUIRE a comment card from the judge for any score lower than a 6. Having them have to explain themselves might just make them think a bit more about if the taste really is waaay below average and why.

We had a great P-Pork this weekend that finished 7th, but one judge in the group gave it a 4 on taste and a 5 on tenderness. Obviously the other judges at the table did not think the same way:

745-988-798-988-799-979
__________________
MAJOR WOODY'S BBQ TEAM You can't handle the Que! 22.5" WSM
Desertdog is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 01:31 PM   #10
Candy Sue
is one Smokin' Farker


 
Join Date: 09-03-09
Location: Pine Bluff, AR
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I have a problem with requiring or even firmly requesting comment cards of judges! No offense but people are lazy...if a judge knows they'll have to do a comment score if they give a 5 or lower, they won't give a 5 or lower. Then we might as well be back in the 9-8-7 scoring days with multitudenous "perfect" scores.

With that said, I feel your pain. Last weekend, I scored 2nd in peoples choice pork, but 30th out of 36 in pork at the contest. I thought my contest pork was better than the judges did. I'm not changing a thing I do in Lula this weekend either.
Candy Sue is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 01:47 PM   #11
Scottie
Babbling Farker
 
Scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-06
Location: Chi-Town
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I am glad that you think that way Candy. I agree with it. While it is painful as a cook to think that someone judged your meat less than average... It is all subjective folks. But to narrow the scoring down to how it used to be is not the answer either.

I think my brisket was on the same table as your pork Candy... Didn't you win Butt-to-Butt a couple of years ago? Isn't that like the best pork cooks cooking? Yeah, there were some strange scores.
On a good note. It was great seeing you last weekend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Sue View Post
I have a problem with requiring or even firmly requesting comment cards of judges! No offense but people are lazy...if a judge knows they'll have to do a comment score if they give a 5 or lower, they won't give a 5 or lower. Then we might as well be back in the 9-8-7 scoring days with multitudenous "perfect" scores.

With that said, I feel your pain. Last weekend, I scored 2nd in peoples choice pork, but 30th out of 36 in pork at the contest. I thought my contest pork was better than the judges did. I'm not changing a thing I do in Lula this weekend either.
__________________
cancersuckschicago.com
FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA BBQ TOUR

Red Jambo one off
FE 100
FEC 100
WSM
Homer Simpson 22 " Weber Kettle
Red 18 1/2" Weber Kettle
Black 26 3/4" Weber Kettle
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 01:50 PM   #12
ModelMaker
is One Chatty Farker
 
ModelMaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-21-06
Location: Lake Ponderosa-Montezuma, IA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

As a rule of thumb any time there is a swing of more than 2 points between the table in any score catagory the table captain should show it to the rep and the rep should ask why such a difference. If the judge has a legitimate reason for scoring out of the majority fine. It is his/her opinion and shall be encouraged. If on the other hand he/she says something that has no relevance they should be taken aside and have an on the spot judging class.
I'm sure there is a rep advisory handling this but do not know exactly what is is.
Any reps want to weigh in on this? Merl, Linda????
Ed

I think Candy Sue is 100% correct if you mandate a comment card for any given number you will not see that number on a score sheet again.
__________________
Designer of a custom drum smoker
Customized Aussie gas passer
Turkey fryer
Extremely seasoned hand hammered Wok
Pit Boss-HART BURN Competition BBQ Team
KCBS certified judge


And Your not the boss of me either!!
ModelMaker is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 02:35 PM   #13
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

> I think Candy Sue is 100% correct if you mandate a comment card for
> any given number you will not see that number on a score sheet again.

Agreed. Reps, variance at a table, any comments?

Looking at what I'd typed earlier, and with Candy's comments, MBN has that
damned finals 2nd round thing that is frankly a pain in the butt. The first round
is about getting off of the table into finals. Changing variance would either have
the top 5 or 6 (in KCBS or others) use tiebreaker or have to go to a 2nd judging;
either way sucks... I guess it's part of it; the bad with the good. Would like
to see how you can get 9's, 8's, and 7's, then 5's... all in the same category.

Just pondering: Should every judge, regardless of score, jot down what they
thought? If it's the norm... I dont know... Scottie, dare I type it, is at the crux
of it; it's subjective, and on any given day....
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from darn near anywhere)
Started competing in chili cookoffs back in the 1990's and have competed in more than I care to count. I became a CBJ in MiM in 2005, then MBN and in GBA in 2010. I've probably judged 130+- BBQ comps (sanctioned and unsanctioned) over this time. That said, I really enjoy competing more than I enjoy judging, and hope to get back to doing 4 or 5 a year in the near future.
Lake Dogs is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 03:56 PM   #14
Smitty250
Full Fledged Farker
 
Smitty250's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-18-10
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Please excuse my ignorance but what is an "elbow"?

Thanks,

Smitty
Loot N' Booty BBQ
Smitty250 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 04-14-2010, 04:09 PM   #15
Alexa RnQ
is One Chatty Farker

 
Alexa RnQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-12-07
Location: the Ninth Ring of Hell, cleverly disguised as Phoenix
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Smitty, it's something that "sticks out". Usually you'd like a little heat, a little sweet, nothing out of balance or oddly spiced to upset a judge's palate.
__________________
.

Don't practice until you get it right; practice until you can't get it wrong.
Don't overthink or undercook.

180 Brisket -- Sam's Club, Salt Lake City, UT 2014
180 Chicken -- Sam's Club National, Bentonville, AR 2013


Rhythm 'n QUE
Alexa RnQ is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
3rd annual pig roast! Part 2! The conclusion!!!!!! Tons of pron!!! DirtyDirty00 Q-talk 39 09-22-2011 12:33 AM
I have come to a conclusion Grain Belt Q-talk 6 04-19-2011 06:08 PM
Rib scores help Smokin' Joe Competition BBQ 15 04-22-2009 05:07 PM
Coming to a conclusion. Norcoredneck Q-talk 21 03-16-2009 11:37 PM
I have come to a conclusion... ricksegers Q-talk 16 09-22-2004 07:57 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:12 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts