Possible KCBS rules changes

[SirPorkaLot]

Originally Posted by ique

How can that be when Taste and Tenderness are so much more heavily weighted?

I ask the same question.....it doesn't make sense, but it sure does appear to be the case.

My chicken does well in comps...why? they are perfectly manicured thighs, that I spend waaay to much time on getting to look like that...

the chicken i make in the backyard for the family tastes a hell of a lot better though, and has a better texture IMHO, but would not do well in comps.

[Jeff_in_KC]

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

> Question: Who is beotching? I haven't seen it yet. Not now, and not
at a comp. So, to whom/when/where are you referring?

Hance, this is an annual occurance. I suppose you've never been at a KCBS Rules Meeting. Those who hate garnish come out EVERY year and have for years! There was (or is) a Web site something like losethelettuce.com or similar where folks can go sign some "petition" to get rid of it. I believe some people get tired of this because of the continual argument against it, not because you brought up the discussion. This debate is kind of like the Missouri-Kansas sports rivalry... the hatred pre-dates both schools. Well, this agrument pre-dates your thread by MANY years. Please don't take it personal.

[Lake Dogs]

Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC

Hance, this is an annual occurance. I suppose you've never been at a KCBS Rules Meeting. Those who hate garnish come out EVERY year and have for years! There was (or is) a Web site something like losethelettuce.com or similar where folks can go sign some "petition" to get rid of it. I believe some people get tired of this because of the continual argument against it, not because you brought up the discussion. This debate is kind of like the Missouri-Kansas sports rivalry... the hatred pre-dates both schools. Well, this agrument pre-dates your thread by MANY years. Please don't take it personal.

Thanks. No, haven't been to KCBS Rules Mtg... I definitely dont want
to come off as a hater at all. KCBS ROCKS, IMHO. I surely didn't want
to question something... I'm trying to find the word... sacrosanct?

Of course, Jeff, you know a little more than others to what degree
I personally believe in KCBS and want to see it flourish... However,
we'll keep that between us. It's still there, by the way, where we
left it.

Sorry, yes, I took it personal. I'll try not to. Georgia really has just
gotten a few KCBS cookoffs going in the last few years. We saw 2
new KCBS cookoffs last year in Kennesaw and at Lake Oconee. We
have at least another new one in Rome this year. They're really
starting to take off. Matter of fact, I'm working closely with the organizers
of 2 cookoffs that have been doing MBN "style" cookoffs but have been
having a tough time getting them sanctioned because if they sanctioned
their cookoffs they'd lose 80% of their local teams (defeating their
purpose). The reason they'd lose those teams has to do with the
on site and the volume of meat required. Enter KCBS (or possibly FBA,
GBA, etc.). Both will probably try KCBS "style" this year (these folks
dont jump in whole-hog without a try first) as I've been plugging along
for a couple years now. We'll see how they like it. I think the teams
are really going to like the single turn-in (last year they had to scrape
together enough meat for that 2nd turn-in, they'd been eating it all).
Then, once sanctioned, I've explained that they'll open up their
competition to a whole new lot of teams that they haven't seen before.

It's all good.

[HandsomeSwede]

I am from one of those newer teams with less than 5 comps under their belt, 4 to be exact. We went from being near dead last in our first comp to 17 overall in our last comp in Troy, would've been higher if not for a 27th in chicken.

In our first comp we garnished with green leaf lettuce and in our last comp we garnished with green leaf lettuce and appearance scores were consistent throughout, 8s & 9s with a 7 here or there.

Our biggest improvements were made by focusing on cooking the meat properly. That said one of the things we will be changing this year is the move to parsley for garnish. Just a hunch that a piece pulled from a nice putting green box has a marked advantage over a plain white box even before the food has been tasted.

Spent a lot of time observing proven winners last year and all seem to use parsley.

[ique]

Originally Posted by SirPorkaLot

Exactly

It is not optional....if you want to win...Can anyone name a top 5 winner in KCBS that submitted a box without garnish?

Here ya go

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...6&postcount=41

[Jeff_in_KC]

Originally Posted by SirPorkaLot

I ask the same question.....it doesn't make sense, but it sure does appear to be the case.

My chicken does well in comps...why? they are perfectly manicured thighs, that I spend waaay to much time on getting to look like that...

the chicken i make in the backyard for the family tastes a hell of a lot better though, and has a better texture IMHO, but would not do well in comps.

You're absolutely right! Backyard barbeque tastes much better than comp barbeque if you have to eat more than a few bites of it! Comp barbeque HAS to be "over the top" to grab the attention of a judge who may only take one bite (or nibble as the cooler... errrrrr I mean CASE may be). Therefore you have to spend a lot of time on it. I not only spend a lot of time with my "perfectly manicured thighs" but ALL categories. However, to say I spend too much time on them is absurd! You can't spend too much time on them (unless of course you go beyond the turn-in window). It's just part of competition barbeque. It simply is what it is.

One other point to make - someone once told me NEVER to give up a single appearance point just because it's the lowest weighted score. I live by that and my overall scores went up. I'll tell you why it seems the way you said - because there are so many great or even just good cooks out there anymore that you can't afford to let a thing slip, no matter how minor it seems. At one contest in 2008, a difference of 0.5714 made a difference in $750 for us. As close as scores are, it takes all three criteria to win. You don't manicure your thighs and you won't be taking a walk... simple as that.

[CivilWarBBQ]

Originally Posted by Lake Dogs

> However, you're right on one
point, only 1 KCBS event so far. The rest have been FBA, GBA, MIM,
and MBN. KCBS has very little traction in Georgia (as compared to
the whole/total)
...

Second, 'round here, KCBS is frankly a wanna be. It may be and IMHO
IS a superior organization, HOWEVER, there's about 1 KCBS cookoff in
this state to every 5 FBA, GBA, MBN cookoffs. King perhaps in your
neck of the woods, but not here, not yet. Strangely, I'm one of the
ones working hard trying to get that changed. Folks in GA have rarely
ever heard of KCBS...
.

I've got to call you on that:


Contests in Georgia in 2009

• KCBS - 10
• GBA - 8? (no historical data on website)
• MBN - 7
• FBA - 5

I don't get that statement, unless you are saying ALL of the sanctioning bodies have "very little traction in Georgia". I think your viewpoint is being skewed by what you see in your immediate neighborhood again.

[Lake Dogs]

Originally Posted by CivilWarBBQ

I've got to call you on that:


Contests in Georgia in 2009

• KCBS - 10
• GBA - 8? (no historical data on website)
• MBN - 7
• FBA - 5

I don't get that statement, unless you are saying ALL of the sanctioning bodies have "very little traction in Georgia". I think your viewpoint is being skewed by what you see in your immediate neighborhood again.

I'm trying to let this die, because I didnt want to stir the crap, by any
means, however as I ran the numbers, both KCBS and GBA were lower...
I fairly certain GBA had only 6 *sanctioned*. However, there were others
using Lonnie's guide doing GBA "style". MBN was probably 7, but I know
of others MBN "style" under Heathers guidance.

Lets let this die. I really dont care whether KCBS allows garnish or not.
If they allow it, mine will be garnished.

Luckily KCBS is getting some headway in the state, finally.

You guys got Rome to go KCBS, didnt you?

[CivilWarBBQ]

We lost Cartersville, but gained Rome and Dalton this year:

2010 Schedule for KCBS in Georgia (11 Contests)

March 13 - Gainesville
May 7 - Rome *
May 7 - Waynesboro
May 28 - Young Harris *
June 18 - Columbus
August 6 - Dillard *
August 20 - Kennesaw *
September 24 - Greensboro/Oconee *
October 8 - Covington *
October 15 - Canton *
October 23 - Dalton

* = Georgia State Championship points contest

[DawgPhan]

Originally Posted by SirPorkaLot

I ask the same question.....it doesn't make sense, but it sure does appear to be the case.

My chicken does well in comps...why? they are perfectly manicured thighs, that I spend waaay to much time on getting to look like that...

the chicken i make in the backyard for the family tastes a hell of a lot better though, and has a better texture IMHO, but would not do well in comps.

So I have to ask what contests your chicken is doing well in. I checked the pickled pig power rankings and the national bbq rankings and didnt see any record of the Sir Pork A Lot team finishing anywhere in chicken?

I would also say that the manicuring of chicken thighs is an internet sensation like bite through chicken skin. If you actually are doing well in KCBS events with chicken it isnt because of the trimming, it is because you can cook a great piece of chicken. I dont spend much time on my chicken trimming, certainly not the way that some do and I do alright with chicken. it isnt the low score anymore anyway, and after taking classes with Mike Davis, Trigg, and Rod Gray and seeing that none of them spend tons of time on trimming chicken I fell there is reason to believe it isnt that important and certainly not important enough to win with based on trimming alone.

[NateOwsley]

I personally like the garnish. I can see the argument that someone put forward that your judging more than Q, but to me thats part of the art of competition bbq. Everyone knows that garnish helps, so most teams use it therefore in essence everyone is on the same playing field. If you think about it, it's one more thing that makes KCBS more respectful to the bbq outsiders, not only do we have to make beautiful delicious meat, but we are artists with our turn in boxes. I guarantee you that Chris Lilly finds this skill helpful when advertising food for his restaurant and website. Plus to say that garnish is an unneccessary expense is ridiculous, it seriously costs about $8 to buy enough garnish for the boxes. If you don't use it all, think of it as helping out a farmer. Anyone who gripes about that probably isn't making any money on the circuit anyway.