The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Q-talk

Notices

Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 01-31-2010, 02:08 PM   #31
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuyasKitchen View Post
I wanted to be able to make this do exactly what I wanted. So, that meant I had to make it myself.
I don't think you HAD to. I think that with a little bit of time waiting, the Stoker really does what you want: It supports mulitple meat probes on a single serial bus and a built in web server and ethernet port allowing you to monitor food or pit temp over the network. It does not come with wifi, but an inexpensive game adapter like what I have, and it works fine with computer or phone. About the only thing you can't do is customize the HTML.

The Stoker also has some "extras" too like the abillity to control a draft fan, the OneWire bus for multiple probes, and audible alarms for doneness or out fires. You can get a Stoker with a single probe and a wifi bridge for about $250, and with a little configuration, everything will work out of the box. Extra probes are $35, or if you wanna solder, you can do your own with Grainger (who sells Omega) and the OneWire address chips.

Your kit is cool, and I'm not trying to take anything away from it, but I'm wondering why people are so interested in it, as it's not new functionality in the BBQ world. Does the $100 price difference really make it that much better? Do people hate The Stoker that much? By the time you add in functionality for multiple probes and the time/labour of putting it all together, I question what the price difference really is.

Years ago I went through something similar when I was heavy into TiVo hacking and Tridge invented a PCI adapter board that we could connect to the debug PCB to connect to it over ethernet, dubbed TiVoNet. I bought the kit, soldered it all together, did what I wanted, and thought it was great. A few years later I needed a different kit for a different form factor, and that time I had the option to get a "TurboNet" board: The ethernet was built in and it came all soldered. It was a few extra dollars, but for my time and money, it was just easy to have it work out of the box, hacker or not.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 05:57 PM   #32
embo500
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 05-29-07
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
Your kit is cool, and I'm not trying to take anything away from it, but I'm wondering why people are so interested in it, as it's not new functionality in the BBQ world. Does the $100 price difference really make it that much better? Do people hate The Stoker that much? By the time you add in functionality for multiple probes and the time/labour of putting it all together, I question what the price difference really is.

I think for me, part of it is the "tinkering" factor. It's the same reason we have people who build a UDS themselves when they could just buy a Stumps or a Traeger or whatever.

It's not necessarily about the money. It's pride not only of ownership, but of "doing it yourself" and learning something along the way and having fun in the process. And don't forget the idea that if you did it yourself, then maybe if you have a better idea for it later, you can just go ahead and do that too.
__________________
Country Smoker CS680
Weber 22.5" OTG
2005 Weber Genesis Silver B
and only the fastest Hawkeye Yellow Thermapen
embo500 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 06:03 PM   #33
embo500
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 05-29-07
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadHorsieBBQ View Post
I can't program but I am handy with a soldering iron. I have a suggestion. What about a a group buy for the materials to put together this probe. When you buy in bulk you usually get better prices.

Stan
I like this idea, but we might also want to review the materials list. I'm wondering if there's a way we could do it using standard off the shelf one-wire probes that you can get at a local hardware store instead of the more expensive probe bought online?

Maybe a way to interface the Arduino to a headphone jack that a cheap one-wire probe could plug into? Maybe a cheap thermistor like a DS18B20? I'm not a hardware guy so I have no clue what I'm talking about here, but just throwing out ideas off the top of my head.
__________________
Country Smoker CS680
Weber 22.5" OTG
2005 Weber Genesis Silver B
and only the fastest Hawkeye Yellow Thermapen
embo500 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 06:36 PM   #34
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by embo500 View Post
I think for me, part of it is the "tinkering" factor. It's the same reason we have people who build a UDS themselves when they could just buy a Stumps or a Traeger or whatever.
I understand this aspect, and I know there is a lot of "I built it myself," but I've always felt the big reason to build a UDS in stead of buying a WSM was the $200-$300 price difference. If the cost, parts included was the exact same between a UDS and a WSM, but the UDS required labor on top of it, would more ppl get the UDS or the WSM? I'm just sayin....

Quote:
Originally Posted by embo500 View Post
I'm wondering if there's a way we could do it using standard off the shelf one-wire probes that you can get at a local hardware store instead of the more expensive probe bought online?

headphone jack that a cheap one-wire probe could plug into?
Threw me for a loop, had me thinking to meant Ace hardware. As far as I remember, the 1W temperature probes that come from Dallas are all designed for ambient temperature. I looked for a while trying to find native 1W devices that would go to the BBQ range, and couldn't, which is when I figured out that some manufacturors buy thermistors or thermocouples and a special general purpose 1W chip and solder away. One lead from the chip goes to the phono jack, and it's a kit, but it's surface mount soldering, not something I would ever pretend to be able to do by hand! I contacted a local component shop to see about getting the DS chips required for 1W, and they said they didn't carry them. There's also I2C which might be a bit more affordable if you'd wanna try it. You can buy the probes at a grainger if they have it in stock, and DigiKey sells 1-Wire chips.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 08:20 PM   #35
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Costs are definitley not even close to being the same. For a dual probe system, I'm looking at about $215. For a dual probe Stoker (with WiFi), I'm looking at $400+. WiFi is a requirement.

As it stands now, using the Arduino Duimilanove, I can support 6 probes. Each box is about $85. Each probe $65 (including the interface chip and board). I like that the probes I'm using are high-quality. The goal is to get the best value that I can. Not the cheapest.

If I want to support up to 14 probes, I can move to an Arduino Mega (about $65, fully assembled). This makes my basic box $120. Each probe about $65.

Another requirement I have is maintainability. I live in the rural Philippines. I can't just call Rock and have something shipped out to get here tomorrow without suffering great pain to my bank account. What I've built I can fix or at least afford to have spare parts lying about.

All that said, it's really not about the money. It's about tinkering and building it myself. It's about making it do exactly what I want. It's about having the system entirely open to me and allowing me to adjust it to fit my needs as they arise.

Why is there interest here? Because people like to tinker and fiddle. Because sometimes just being handed a black box just takes the fun out of it.

Honestly, I spent 5 minutes soldering what needed to be done on this kit. The rest comes assembled. I spent a few hours playing with software. But, that's 'cause I'm a software guy and enjoy it.

The software contains a complete table (0 to 200 degress Celcius, in 1 degree increments) for translating K-type thermocouple voltages to something meaningful to us. And, it takes multiple samples per second, averages those, and interpolates between the voltages to give fractional degrees. Why? Because it was fun (and relatively easy, too).

I derive a great deal of pride in looking at something and thinking "I made that". It's what drove me to write software, it's what drives me to cook/BBQ.
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 08:27 PM   #36
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by embo500 View Post
This is awesome, and gives me an idea.
Cool :)

I'm like you. Software guy. Started writing code in 1972.

I'm intentionally keeping the web interface to the board simple. I don't want to have to write a lot of software for the Arduino. It's very, very weak compared to what I'm used to.

So, I'm thinking this will be what the box serves up as its web page (0.0 meaning the probe may not be attached):

Code:
Probe 0: 60.5C
Probe 1: 102.3C
Probe 2: 0.0C
Probe 3: 0.0C
Probe 4: 0.0C
Probe 5: 0.0C
Of course, the client software should be smart and be able to take an arbitrary list of probes. Missing numbers, more numbers, etc. So, if someone were to use an Arduino Mega, there would be 14 probes listed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by embo500 View Post
My thinking is that the code should be open source, since the hardware design is as well.
I agree. My intent is to share this here with the Brethren. If others like it, build it, and use it, cool. If not, I have what I need, at least.
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 08:33 PM   #37
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimsBBQ View Post
1) I would suggest a dual probe approach per piece of Meat being measured. One to be inserted to center of meat for internal, and one for the chamber temp for that meat. They should be gained together physically on both the probe and lead to ensure ease of use and accuracy.
Agreed. One might consider multiple chamber probes, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimsBBQ View Post
2) Produce a trending chart that also includes the Six Sigma Upper and Lower Limits, Mean and Medium Averages so we can improve our processes as needed. This will also show the meat's sweat tempatures and durations that will allow us to leverage for adding more flavor and moisture to get drawn back into the meat deepest.
Greek to me ... but, I'll take you at your word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimsBBQ View Post
3) Identify defects by automatically calculating six sigma levels by sigma (+-1 Sigma +-2 Sigma and +- Sigma 3) and be saved for each smoker probes to benchmark each smoker's process tolerences to improve or duplicate.

4) Add a optical sensor to measure the chambers smoke desity as a trending factor (WOW).

5) Add a relative Humidity sensor to measure the chambers Humidity Trend (WOW, WOW)

6) Add a high tempature tempature sensor to measure the heat sources trending (Holy Shiet)
Not asking for much, are you?

I tend to agree with you. There's art to BBQ, but there's also science. I want to get the science down as much as possible so that I can focus on the art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimsBBQ View Post
Thanks again James for your kindness in sharing your insight.
I'm only returning the favor already done by so many people here.
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 10:51 PM   #38
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuyasKitchen View Post
Costs are definitley not even close to being the same. For a dual probe system, I'm looking at about $215. For a dual probe Stoker (with WiFi), I'm looking at $400+. WiFi is a requirement
That's fine on your requirements, and I won't fault what you've done. I'm a software guy too. I had planned on buying an embedded controller and an Omega thermocouple and had already written the software to go on the controller, until I found that Omega already had a prewritten controller to do what I wanted, professionally written and auto-tuned, and if I wanted to pay a little more, it even had a built in http server. I decided for me, it was better to buy than build, but of course I'm talking about a controller rather than a reader. For all those who find this interesting, go for it. I'd be glad to help out if any one wants it, and I certainly won't call ppl fools for wanting to do their own thing. I think an "open source" version of the Stoker would be pretty kick ass, and I totally understand your reason about being so far from the mainland.

One thing to say though, I'm not sure where you are getting your numbers. A two probe Stoker shouldn't cost any where near $400! The Stoker itself is $175. Each probe is $35. You may even be able to get a progressive $5 discount if you buy a few at a time. A wifi bridge is about $40. That's about $285 without any discounts. Still more than what you'll have spent, but by my math, the break even point is at about 4 probes, and that's fine if the average person only wants 2-3. Take into account what else is there, and it's a harder decision to me. Again, I'm not saying anything bad about what you've done, and I totally get it. I'm sorry if I came across that way, but so many of the things people are asking you to add already exist. I'd be saying the same thing if some one said he found a way to build a device to pick dirt up off the carpet that only cost him $20, but took half a day to put together. And for the record, I built my own pellet pooper in stead of buying one because I wanted to do it myself, but it was also cheaper!

One last thing, and then I hope to bow out unless I can help: Some one asked for trending software I think. There is a free piece of software out there called StokerLog which does just that, monitoring your various probes and such. It keeps a log on disk, and maps the results in a nifty graph, which you are able to save. There's also a port based protocol where you can query and set just about everything about the Stoker, and I've written some of a C# library to access it.

Cool work.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 01-31-2010, 11:15 PM   #39
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I was thinking that one would use an WiFi access point (about $150). Not a bridge. So, yeah, your numbers are a lot closer.

Graphing and trending software is fairly trivial given modern tools (C# comes to mind immediately). As is data storage.

I understand your points about using equipment that's already built and debugged. But, I have the free time to spend on this. And, I enjoy it.

Another thing to remember: there isn't a whole lot to do here in terms of entertainment. Hobbies are all one really has. :)
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-01-2010, 07:50 PM   #40
embo500
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 05-29-07
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuyasKitchen View Post
So, I'm thinking this will be what the box serves up as its web page (0.0 meaning the probe may not be attached):

Code:
Probe 0: 60.5C
Probe 1: 102.3C
Probe 2: 0.0C
Probe 3: 0.0C
Probe 4: 0.0C
Probe 5: 0.0C
Of course, the client software should be smart and be able to take an arbitrary list of probes. Missing numbers, more numbers, etc. So, if someone were to use an Arduino Mega, there would be 14 probes listed.
What about having it spit back XML? It's a little more wordy, but also more flexible if necessary:

Code:
<tempsensor>
  <sensor type="probe" id="1">
    <value type="temp" unit="C">102.3</value>
  </sensor>
  <sensor type="probe" id="2">
    <value type="temp" unit="C">0.0</value>
  </sensor>
  <sensor type="probe" id="3">
    <value type="temp" unit="C">0.0</value>
  </sensor>
  <sensor type="probe" id="4">
    <value type="temp" unit="C">0.0</value>
  </sensor>
  <sensor type="probe" id="5">
    <value type="temp" unit="C">0.0</value>
  </sensor>
</tempsensor>
This is just a sample suggestion. Not sure how you'd want to structure it for sure. We might be starting to step outside the bounds of "on-topic" for this forum, I suppose.
__________________
Country Smoker CS680
Weber 22.5" OTG
2005 Weber Genesis Silver B
and only the fastest Hawkeye Yellow Thermapen
embo500 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-02-2010, 12:41 AM   #41
bigabyte
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
bigabyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-10-06
Location: Overland Fark, KS
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 1
Default

Whoa! Pretty high tech!
__________________
Chris Baker
Join the BBQ Brethren Throwdowns
Sole recipient of the Silverfinger and fingerlickin Awards!
Yes, I own a whole bunch of BBQ crap also.
Certified MOINK Baller & IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball Judge #0003 - Get your MOINK Certification today!
The Secret Squirrel Society doesn't exist - Zero Club member
bigabyte is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-02-2010, 03:42 AM   #42
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I understand the desire for XML ... since it's a web page, one could also say that

GET "/" returns the human-readable

GET "/xml" returns the XML page

That way we return both.
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-02-2010, 03:55 AM   #43
Brewdog
Got rid of the matchlight.
 
Brewdog's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-31-10
Location: Enoree, SC
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default PID controller made with Arduino board

Hi all,

After reading these posts, I thought I would share a link to a post by Bob Hruska on "The Virtual Weber Bullet" forum. Bob has created his on PID controller using the Arduino board and the probes from the Maverick ET-73 which are thermistors instead of thermocouples. He also has a link to his web page that he kindly put up with all the details on doing it yourself.
He got his board from Sparkfun, his part list has a link. He also has this wifi setup for webpage monitoring.
He is on his second version of this and it looks very interesting. There is also some feedback on the forum post and some improvements to the code. The Sparkfun link also has a ton of information about compilers for the Arduino board and syntax examples.
Here is the link to the forum post:
http://tvwbb.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a.../909108292/p/1

Here is the link to Bob's Homebrew BBQ temperature controller
http://www.hruska.us/tempmon/

Enjoy!
Brewdog

Brewdog is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-02-2010, 06:47 AM   #44
SirPorkaLot
Babbling Farker

 
SirPorkaLot's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-31-09
Location: Antioch, CA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I don't think you HAD to. I think that with a little bit of time waiting, the Stoker really does what you want: It supports mulitple meat probes on a single serial bus and a built in web server and ethernet port allowing you to monitor food or pit temp over the network. It does not come with wifi, but an inexpensive game adapter like what I have, and it works fine with computer or phone. About the only thing you can't do is customize the HTML.

The Stoker also has some "extras" too like the abillity to control a draft fan, the OneWire bus for multiple probes, and audible alarms for doneness or out fires. You can get a Stoker with a single probe and a wifi bridge for about $250, and with a little configuration, everything will work out of the box. Extra probes are $35, or if you wanna solder, you can do your own with Grainger (who sells Omega) and the OneWire address chips.

Your kit is cool, and I'm not trying to take anything away from it, but I'm wondering why people are so interested in it, as it's not new functionality in the BBQ world. Does the $100 price difference really make it that much better? Do people hate The Stoker that much? By the time you add in functionality for multiple probes and the time/labour of putting it all together, I question what the price difference really is.

Years ago I went through something similar when I was heavy into TiVo hacking and Tridge invented a PCI adapter board that we could connect to the debug PCB to connect to it over ethernet, dubbed TiVoNet. I bought the kit, soldered it all together, did what I wanted, and thought it was great. A few years later I needed a different kit for a different form factor, and that time I had the option to get a "TurboNet" board: The ethernet was built in and it came all soldered. It was a few extra dollars, but for my time and money, it was just easy to have it work out of the box, hacker or not.

dmp
With all due respect, I think you are missing the point.
He is not reinventing the wheel, he is merely making the wheel himself to his own specifications.

Yea there are all kinds of gadgets out there on the market. Stoker guru, etc, but what fun is it to let someone else have all the creative fun?

I for one encourage open source tech, and applaud James for sharing.

Using your point of view...it wouldn't make sense to spend hundreds/thousands of dollars to make BBQ, when you could simply go to your local BBQ joint and buy it.
__________________
Sir Porkalot aka John

Back to back winner of the BBQ Brethren Throwdown with a pig leg and something funky
CBBQA & KCBS member: Sir Porkalot BBQ Team
NC & NorCal (Yes I stay confused)
BLUE Thermapen
Visit my website: http://www.sirporkalot.com
SirPorkaLot is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 02-02-2010, 09:06 AM   #45
KuyasKitchen
is one Smokin' Farker
 
KuyasKitchen's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-27-08
Location: Tacloban, Leyte, Philippines
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Brewdog,

Thanks for posting the link. I'd seen his work briefly but lost the location.

One reason I stuck with thermocouples is that I can get probes in different styles. And, I don't mind paying a little extra for that convenience.

Thermistors would certainly be easier. Although, I found a table that translates K-type thermocouple voltages to degrees C. It's just a simple look-up in the code now. Thermocouples seem easy enough to deal with.

He adds blowers, which is cool. Personally, I don't need blowers. I run a gasser. :)

This is why I want to do this as an open source project. We can get inspiration and help from all kinds of places. Thanks!
__________________
James
Kuya's Kitchen - my culinary adventures in the rural Philippines

IMBAS Certified MOINK Baller
Equipment: Weber Kettle, Stainless GOSM,
Green Super-Fast Thermapen
Equipment Wish List: Smokehouse, Backyard Brick Pit with Lechon Spit
KuyasKitchen is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oregon scientific wireless probe therm CarlWayne Q-talk 4 12-27-2011 02:57 AM
Straightening A Temperature Probe el_matt Q-talk 4 10-03-2011 08:04 AM
The Clock and the Temperature Probe barbefunkoramaque Q-talk 66 06-27-2011 10:52 AM
Temperature Probe smokeyw Q-talk 2 01-28-2011 09:45 AM
Wireless Probe AzQer Q-talk 10 10-03-2007 10:11 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts