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Unread 12-30-2009, 11:38 PM   #1
Midnight Smoke
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Question Hot & Fast Brisket I am Confused*** Again

I have balked at the High and Fast method, mostly due to lack of knowledge on my part I admit. After reading many posts from the true Pit Masters we have here, I want to try one myself. Read so many posts my head is swimming.

Planning one for New Years Eve party of about 20 people. Need dinner to be ready around 6pm.

Here is where the confusion sets in. What is the process that produces the best results? Start around 225º for a few hours then kick it up to 325º until Brisket hits 160º and foil to 200º? Then rest for 2-4 Hours?

Or, start at 325º and keep it at that temp?

I guess what I need is a ballpark idea for total cook times.

Picked up a 12lb Packer and will be using the Egg.

Thanks for your advice!!! In helping me avoid a possible disaster?
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:13 AM   #2
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I cook mine at 325-350* straight through, and a 14-pound (trimmed) packer will take right at six hours. I plan for 30 minutes per pound, but it usually takes about 25. Here is a shot of the results of my last outing just over a week ago.



I hope this helps,
John
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:16 AM   #3
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Thanks John! Did you Foil?
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Smoker View Post
Thanks John! Did you Foil?
Yeah, I foil at about 170* and pull it of to rest at 200*. I should mention that I am now using a water pan in my UDS when I cook brisket and butts.

John
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:26 AM   #5
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Terry, like you I have been seeing the posts about hot and fast, so gave it a try on 7 12 - 14 briskets for out Christmas office party on my drum smokers. Trimmed the fat between the point and flat, which I would not do for low and slow. Normal trimming of the heavey fat cap. Wrapped them at 165ish and took off the smoker around 195ish after testing for tenderness with a probe. Some were done a little earlier. Into the cooler for a few hours and they were fantastic! For the most part, the total cook time was about 5 hours. I was shocked!
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat Burner View Post
For the most part, the total cook time was about 5 hours. I was shocked!
I was shocked the first time, too. Suffice it to say that I am no longer torturing myself with crazy long brisket cooks, especially when my competition scores went up appreciably.

John
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:47 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patiodaddio View Post
i cook mine at 325-350* straight through, and a 14-pound (trimmed) packer will take right at six hours. I plan for 30 minutes per pound, but it usually takes about 25. Here is a shot of the results of my last outing just over a week ago.



i hope this helps,
john
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:47 AM   #8
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John, I am going to do this at our next comp in April. Will do some practice cooks to be sure, but very surprised at the tenderness and flavor. I did inject these and the big difference was trimming a lot of the thick flat between the point and flat. My thought was it didn't have the time to render that much fat so thin it down for a fast cook. Must say these were very good briskets.
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Unread 12-31-2009, 12:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat Burner View Post
...the big difference was trimming a lot of the thick flat between the point and flat. My thought was it didn't have the time to render that much fat so thin it down for a fast cook. Must say these were very good briskets.
Yep! I do exactly the same thing.



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Unread 12-31-2009, 01:01 AM   #10
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Terry, hope some of this help ya bro. The hot and fast is definately a good alternative. It's 1:00 am here and the only reason I am up is finishing some pork for tamales for tomorrow. This is WAAAYY past my old arse bedtime. Good luck and let us know what you decide to do. Happy New Year to all.
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Unread 12-31-2009, 02:23 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatioDaddio View Post
I cook mine at 325-350* straight through, and a 14-pound (trimmed) packer will take right at six hours. I plan for 30 minutes per pound, but it usually takes about 25. Here is a shot of the results of my last outing just over a week ago.



I hope this helps,
John
Thanks, one finished pic, who knows where is came from, guy. I know, you think posting pics of the process is boring to us. I assure you it is not. Everyone else here, including me, tries to show their steps, why can't you? Is it because you are just posting your blog posts here?
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Unread 12-31-2009, 08:51 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meat Burner View Post
Terry, like you I have been seeing the posts about hot and fast, so gave it a try on 7 12 - 14 briskets for out Christmas office party on my drum smokers. Trimmed the fat between the point and flat, which I would not do for low and slow. Normal trimming of the heavey fat cap. Wrapped them at 165ish and took off the smoker around 195ish after testing for tenderness with a probe. Some were done a little earlier. Into the cooler for a few hours and they were fantastic! For the most part, the total cook time was about 5 hours. I was shocked!
What temps are you working with?

Is that the general consensus 325º for the entire cook?

Thanks for the help!
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Unread 12-31-2009, 09:04 AM   #13
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Yep... I try to maintain 300 - 325 for the whole time. One thing that I learned from one of the senior members here is to foil based more on bark color than based on a specific temp. That way the bark won't get too dark if you don't want it to.
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Unread 12-31-2009, 09:47 AM   #14
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Attachment 35417
Example of me NOT doing a ring fix before cranking it up.

First of all - I would never attempt something new that you don't have a skillset for at a gathering unless you have a backup of what you are an expert at. Then you can feed them your good stuff and tell them "this is my new project, what do you think?"

HOWEVER - Hot and fast when you're used to low and slow is a better risk than low and slow when you're used to hot and fast because of timing.

Next, as everyone knows, I cook at 270-300. If I have a spike at 325 its not big deal. HOWEVER!!!!! I changed after a few years to setting in my ring via THIRDEYE style by smoking low and slow - even at the stupid temp overall temp of say 200 that some guys use, only to set that ring in.

Now I have a certain type of equipment and do at least 20 briskets at a time so my method may differ from the others. After a while I jack it up like he does. MY Brazos Offset and my Meat Mama 3000 does not put out as good Q at Lockhart Temps as it does at 270. My Drum Does. My brick pit I have access to that is 70 years old does too. Go Figure - so sometimes it has to do with your equipment. I DO to speed up cook times, pump the pit up to 325 or so. Just not the whole cook.

Thirdeye ends up higher I end up lower due to my pit tendencies.

I will also warn this! DO NOT USE LOW AND SLOW RUBS AND TECHNIQUES WITH HOT AND FAST. YOU WILL BE CHEATING YOURSELF. Do not ever use Hot and Fast rubs like mine and foil. You can foil if you wish (although plastic wrap or butcher paper is healthier) after the cook with the rest. Other may do it with some success and I am not saying they are wrong - just forbidding you to do it. Joke!

Attachment 35418
Ready for the Burn with the tri level rub technique

Attachment 35419
Wrapped and ready to Chill, Freeze, Rebake, rest whatever.

I would cook to be sure your product is ready 3 hours before your event. Hot and fast, due to its hot nature of the outer layers, LOVES to be held. The longer the better. Plus it allows you to be in control before the guest arrive and not be fretting about your meat. My bark is so crusty it will dull a knife I am told when a resturant used it. their carver said it kept dulling his knife. LOL

Now what also is odd about my final rub is you can wrap the meat, thereby making the bark wet and softer but when you set it out in cold air for maybe just 10 minutes it snaps back quite a bit.

FAT REMOVAL IS KEY TOO IN THE CENTER.

Attachment 35420
Typical fat removal of 40 Briskets.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pork Smoker View Post
I have balked at the High and Fast method, mostly due to lack of knowledge on my part I admit. After reading many posts from the true Pit Masters we have here, I want to try one myself. Read so many posts my head is swimming.

Planning one for New Years Eve party of about 20 people. Need dinner to be ready around 6pm.

Here is where the confusion sets in. What is the process that produces the best results? Start around 225º for a few hours then kick it up to 325º until Brisket hits 160º and foil to 200º? Then rest for 2-4 Hours?

Or, start at 325º and keep it at that temp?

I guess what I need is a ballpark idea for total cook times.

Picked up a 12lb Packer and will be using the Egg.

Thanks for your advice!!! In helping me avoid a possible disaster?
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Last edited by barbefunkoramaque; 04-03-2011 at 02:32 PM..
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Unread 12-31-2009, 09:57 AM   #15
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Beautiful - worthy of Jenny Hendrix


Quote:
Originally Posted by PatioDaddio View Post
I cook mine at 325-350* straight through, and a 14-pound (trimmed) packer will take right at six hours. I plan for 30 minutes per pound, but it usually takes about 25. Here is a shot of the results of my last outing just over a week ago.



I hope this helps,
John
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