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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 12-29-2009, 09:05 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
Isn't that an issue for the table captain and Rep to determine whether a DQ is in order, rather than for individual judges to "punish" the cook for their assumption by issuing low scores?
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

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Unread 12-29-2009, 09:16 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp
I think standard practice is to consult the TC and the Rep prior to writing a 1 on the score sheet... not after.
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Unread 12-29-2009, 09:22 AM   #18
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I think standard practice is to consult the TC and the Rep prior to writing a 1 on the score sheet... not after.
They said it was a new rule change coming down and they were teaching us how to do it the new way. I didn't judge The Jack, but some one how did could tell you if that's how they did it there. They also tried something new where we couldn't ask the TC about the DQs before we wrote them down, but I think that was just for the class.

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Unread 12-29-2009, 09:35 AM   #19
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Wow judging instructions change often. In 07 I was instructed to give it the app score that I would have if not a DQ, then after all of the judges wrote down their app score - ask the TC about it, then the TC would get a judgment from the rep. At that point if the rep declared it as illegal all the judges would change their app scores to 1's.

The reasoning for that method was so it wouldn't subconsciously change a judges score if it was ruled as a legal entry. To me, that sounds like the better method of the two.

Are all judging classes being told the same things regardless who the instructor is?
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Unread 12-29-2009, 10:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Bobby View Post
Wow judging instructions change often. In 07 I was instructed to give it the app score that I would have if not a DQ, then after all of the judges wrote down their app score - ask the TC about it, then the TC would get a judgment from the rep. At that point if the rep declared it as illegal all the judges would change their app scores to 1's.
I was taught the same as you Bob.....in 2007 also.
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Unread 12-29-2009, 11:21 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp
Is it just me? How do you go back and 're-score' the appearance when the meat is already gone if they determine that it shouldn't have been DQ'd in the first place?

I really hope this comes up at the rules meeting... I for one would like some clarification on it.
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Last edited by Divemaster; 12-29-2009 at 01:07 PM.. Reason: Additional Thoughts....
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Unread 12-29-2009, 03:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
According to the class I just took, parting meat is a DQ. If a judge feels that any entry gets a DQ, the new rules are to give the DQ score (1), then judge the taste/tenderness as if it weren't a DQ, then, after taste and tenderness, report your findings to the TC, and wait for the rep to handle it. At that point all judges at the table may change their scores to DQ, and the Taste/Tenderness scores stand. Sounds like crap to me, as your taste/tenderness scores should be able to change too.

Anyway, we were also instructed to expect MM and expect it to look like it was parted, but don't DQ for it, because cooks are very good at making it look that way. If you still have doubts, ask the TC / Rep. There were BoD members at the class. Sounds like some judges need to be updated on the current rules.

Me? I'm for the appearence scores going away!

dmp
Parted meat is supposed to be a DQ, that's true, but I'm not so sure about judges giving meat a 1 without rep instruction.

The current rules (2009) still on the KCBS site still say...

4) The scoring system is from 9 to 2, all whole numbers
between two and nine may be used to score an entry. 9
excellent, 8 very good, 7 above average, 6 average, 5
below average, 4 poor, 3 bad, and 2 inedible.

5) A score of one (1) is a disqualification and requires
approval by a Contest Rep. Grounds for disqualification:
All judges will give a one (1) in Appearance for
unapproved garnish, pooled sauce or less than 6 samples
of meat. All judges will give a one (1) in all criteria for
sculptured meat, a marked turn-in container, foreign
object in the container, incorrect meat. All judges not
receiving a sample will give a one (1) in all criteria.

The rep is the only person currently authorized to allow/intruct a judge to give a 1. Until rule 4 is changed, that's how I would interpret it

I'm not sure who instructed otherwise, but I'll be sure and ask about this at the class here in IL on 1/30

The way I was instructed, both in judging class and table captain certification was that, if a judge has a question about an entry, and if it might be a dq, he should bring it up to the table captain, who should then consult the rep.
The 1 or 2 times I was actually a witness to a dq, this is how it happened as well.

Until KCBS publishes something that says otherwise, I would think that the 2009 rules still apply. How can they enforce an unpublished "rule"?
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Unread 12-29-2009, 03:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Divemaster View Post
Is it just me? How do you go back and 're-score' the appearance when the meat is already gone if they determine that it shouldn't have been DQ'd in the first place?
It's not just you. I think the whole thing is less than the optimal way to do it. I understand not wanting to "poison the well" with a potentially non-DQ situation. You basically have to keep in mind in your head what the score would have been and then change it. Or perhaps I don't remember 100% and you score it as if it wasn't a DQ and then ask after all scoring. Part of the problem was that we weren't allowed to ask about DQs at all in the class. In either case, I think the correct time to ask about DQ is after all appearance scores are recorded.

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Unread 12-29-2009, 03:30 PM   #24
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Just bring out the muffin pans for pork and let's call it sculpting!
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Unread 12-29-2009, 03:45 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candy Sue View Post
Just bring out the muffin pans for pork and let's call it sculpting!

Are muffin pans classified as jello molds or ice creams scoops? If they are ice cream scoops, then it would be legal. If they are jello molds, then you will be DQ'd...

Honestly, it's no wonder why these Reps don't know what's going on...
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Unread 12-29-2009, 03:56 PM   #26
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Could you serve pork puree? I suppose that would be fine as long as you didn't put it back on the pit after you blended your pork.
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Unread 12-29-2009, 04:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
Could you serve pork puree? I suppose that would be fine as long as you didn't put it back on the pit after you blended your pork.
You'd have to count on the judges to have their own spoons since you can't put any in the box for them.
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Unread 12-29-2009, 04:47 PM   #28
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Unread 12-29-2009, 04:49 PM   #29
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Quote:
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You'd have to count on the judges to have their own spoons since you can't put any in the box for them.
Damn you, Voice of Reason.
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Unread 12-29-2009, 05:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
Could you serve pork puree? I suppose that would be fine as long as you didn't put it back on the pit after you blended your pork.
Then there would be micro-managing going on and we'd have to be told we could not have pooling of the pork!
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