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Unread 11-11-2009, 11:05 PM   #1
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Default BOD Meeting Vote - What's Your Opinion?

Chris Early, Early Bird BBQ, and I attended the BOD meeting in person tonight. Apparently two members were listening on the phone too.

This will of course be in the "Quick Notes" document but I wanted to get the feelings about this from you folks...

Apparently at an undisclosed contest, a rep announced to the crowd during the awards that he/she had seen the winning ancillary category entry and without asking the cook, publicly disclosed to the crowd what that entry was. This prompted an email to one board member from the winning team, angry that their entry had been disclosed.

There was a motion made by Carol Whitebook to (and I'm paraphrasing here) issue a rep advisory regarding not telling what a cook submits in an ancillary category unless the cook chooses to share. This motion was seconded by Ed Roith. Merl, Carol and Ed spoke in favor of this advisory. I cannot recall specifically who spoke against it. It seems some of the concern was that KCBS can't control what an organizer chooses to disclose in an ancillary category. Here was the vote:

Ed - Yes
Gene - Yes
Carol - Yes
Merl - Yes
Paul - No
Mike B. - No
Linda - No
Tana - No
Steve - No
Don - No

Motion failed.

OK so what do you think as cooks? Is this a "cooker friendly" decision? Is it minutia and more micromanagement? Does it matter? Do you want a rep to blurt out what you turned in if you had planned to keep it secret? Isn't this the same as telling other teams what your rib box looked like?

Personally, I think it's wrong. As a cook, I should be able to say what my entry was or I should be able to say "I'm sorry, I choose to keep that a secret". Of course KCBS can't stop the organizer from saying something in an ancillary category BUT my opinion is give the reps the advisory to keep out of it and not say anything themselves. This just seems to be sending the wrong message. What do you all think?

I think Chris took more notes than I did and he can go into other details. Everything else seemed pretty non-exciting. Paul Kirk (no report in Education for November) as he was leaving, jokingly (I hope) asked Chris and I if we had a life...
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Unread 11-12-2009, 02:34 AM   #2
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Needless micromanagement.

What's next, swear all the judges to secrecy and make them sign in blood? Nobody is giving out your recipe. When you submit an entry for judging, it becomes public knowledge that it exists. Duh.

The Board has better things to do than spending time on stupid little stuff like this.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 05:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
Paul Kirk (no report in Education for November) as he was leaving, jokingly (I hope) asked Chris and I if we had a life...
Might be a good place to start your mission to bring back respect to the board room.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 07:25 AM   #4
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I think once you hand that box in, it is there for all to see. Heck, many folks walk up their desserts with 2 people helping them carry it all, for example.

I know about the incident, and I know we hear people say "Chocolate cake, Rattlesnake Pie, etc". But there are also teams like D-Dons who continue to win even after they divulge thier own dessert name. There are thousands of recipes for cheesecakes, cobblers, etc. simply saying what it was doesnt give anyone an advantage. Do we know how many points (if there were any) between the top 3 places? multiple 180s or anything?

I agree that I would hope the board has better things to do than micromanage these ancillary catagories.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 07:30 AM   #5
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D-Don's will even let you taste their desserts and still pull 180's.

Nothing can prevent someone in the judging tent from taking a picture and publishing it either. I think that KCBS should suggest to the organizers that they have a release statement in their application that pictures may be taken of your entries or you. The American Bass Anglers do this.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 07:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
I think that KCBS should suggest to the organizers that they have a release statement in their application that pictures may be taken of your entries or you. The American Bass Anglers do this.
Not for the meat categories, surely?
One concern would be that once the door is opened for anything except self-publishing by the individual cook, "confusion" could come about and a meat presentation becomes fodder for open discussion/distribution.

Sure, lots of cooks self-publish. But as it stands, there is still a choice.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 07:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DivaHerself View Post
Not for the meat categories, surely?
One concern would be that once the door is opened for anything except self-publishing by the individual cook, "confusion" could come about and a meat presentation becomes fodder for open discussion/distribution.

Sure, lots of cooks self-publish. But as it stands, there is still a choice.
There have been cameras in the judging tents. Usually not the judges, but mostly organizers, etc. Nothing that I know of to prevent that and a turn in box could show up in a "candid'.

Either prevent it, or have a release so everyone knows whats up.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_in_KC View Post
Chris Early, Early Bird BBQ, and I attended the BOD meeting in person tonight. Apparently two members were listening on the phone too.

This will of course be in the "Quick Notes" document but I wanted to get the feelings about this from you folks...

Apparently at an undisclosed contest, a rep announced to the crowd during the awards that he/she had seen the winning ancillary category entry and without asking the cook, publicly disclosed to the crowd what that entry was. This prompted an email to one board member from the winning team, angry that their entry had been disclosed.

There was a motion made by Carol Whitebook to (and I'm paraphrasing here) issue a rep advisory regarding not telling what a cook submits in an ancillary category unless the cook chooses to share. This motion was seconded by Ed Roith. Merl, Carol and Ed spoke in favor of this advisory. I cannot recall specifically who spoke against it. It seems some of the concern was that KCBS can't control what an organizer chooses to disclose in an ancillary category. Here was the vote:

Ed - Yes
Gene - Yes
Carol - Yes
Merl - Yes
Paul - No
Mike B. - No
Linda - No
Tana - No
Steve - No
Don - No

Motion failed.

OK so what do you think as cooks? Is this a "cooker friendly" decision? Is it minutia and more micromanagement? Does it matter? Do you want a rep to blurt out what you turned in if you had planned to keep it secret? Isn't this the same as telling other teams what your rib box looked like?

Personally, I think it's wrong. As a cook, I should be able to say what my entry was or I should be able to say "I'm sorry, I choose to keep that a secret". Of course KCBS can't stop the organizer from saying something in an ancillary category BUT my opinion is give the reps the advisory to keep out of it and not say anything themselves. This just seems to be sending the wrong message. What do you all think?

I think Chris took more notes than I did and he can go into other details. Everything else seemed pretty non-exciting. Paul Kirk (no report in Education for November) as he was leaving, jokingly (I hope) asked Chris and I if we had a life...
Am I reading this right. A rep said what it was and the board argued that they can't be responsible for what an organizer says? Apples and oranges no?

I have to disagree here though. What someone does in an open category should be theirs to reveal. We know what the main four are but there is a lot of variety in the ancillary categories. I don't think they should announce it without consent from the winner. As ridiculous as it may sound to some it is still that persons/teams choice to allow. Normally they are brought on stage and asked what they made. This puts them on the spot enough and most announce what they made anyway.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:07 AM   #9
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Is this thread about the meat categories, the anciliaries, or both?

If it is about anciliaries, I'll just say that it never even ocurred to me that entries would NOT be disclosed. In fact, personal recollection of my experience says they almost always are, but my memory could be failing.

Describing what was turned in for an ancilliary is not the same as describing how a turn in was prepared, whether it is meat or "anything but". Personal opinion only here.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:09 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
D-Don's will even let you taste their desserts and still pull 180's.

Nothing can prevent someone in the judging tent from taking a picture and publishing it either. I think that KCBS should suggest to the organizers that they have a release statement in their application that pictures may be taken of your entries or you. The American Bass Anglers do this.
I have that in my app but it is for media purposes only and I dont allow any judges to take photos nor do I think it is allowed in any contests. Sometimes a newspaper will take one but I also ask that they dont focus on the numbers.

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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:29 AM   #11
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I asked if I could take pics of the anything but while judging the Jack and was told no.

I don't think the rep should ever grandstand like that even if there's a release. The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
I asked if I could take pics of the anything but while judging the Jack and was told no.

I don't think the rep should ever grandstand like that even if there's a release. The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.
That's exactly what my thought was, Ray.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:34 AM   #13
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I don't agree with releasing anything of ours without our (cooks) consent. All I have to say is when will it stop? IWill they be allowed to publish a picture of our meat, with a full explanation of the taste, texture and any unique qualities?

The Bullsheet and BBQ News published photos from inside the judging tent at Felda. It had a very unique entry in the photo (meat, not dessert) and I do not think that was fair. That cook lost his 'advantage' that he had on the rest of us cooks.

Not fair and I am keeping notes of who votes AGAINST us cooks. Oh, I am sure we will have a couple come on here and try to defend themselves yet again. Too bad.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:40 AM   #14
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The rep is the "Referee" and should never compromise the system by talking about an entry that should be considered blind. The organizer can do whatever he wants but the rep should be above that.
Very well stated, and I agree.
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Unread 11-12-2009, 08:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottie View Post
I don't agree with releasing anything of our without our (cooks) consent. All I have to say is when will it stop? Have a picture of our meat, with a full explanation of the taste, texture and any unique qualities?

The Bullsheet and BBQ News published photos from inside the judging tent at Felda. It had a very unique entry in the photo (meat, not dessert) and I do not think that was fair. That cook lost his 'advantage' that he had on the rest of us cooks.

Not fair and I am keeping notes of who votes AGAINST us cooks. Oh, I am sure we will have a couple come on here and try to defend themselves yet again. Too bad.
I agree. I have a picture of all the Butt to Butt entries for this year taken from inside the tent during judging. It was published. Definitely some interesting things to be seen in that pic. I can, obviously pick out my entry, but I can also pick out another team as the only one not using parsley. Not an official KCBS event, but...

We kind of have two topics going here with the photos and the descriptions of the ancillary. They sort of go together under one main topic, but sorry Jeff if we've hyjacked your original topic.
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