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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 10-19-2009, 01:14 PM   #1
Redheart
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Default My 1st & Last ICBA Event

Well I did the Liberty Tree event up in Dalton this weekend. I have a little pron to show as well. I did have an enjoyable time but in truth I am not planning in ever doing another ICBA event again. It is basically a peoples choice event for every category. The judging is based totally on taste, at least that is what we were told, and the judges are local folks and dignitaries that get a quick briefing from the IBCA rep and nothing else. So basically they get a crash course on what the rep likes in BBQ and are told to judge on that. If the scoring was truly based solely on taste, as claimed, then they should have blind folded the judges. There were only 15 contestants in the event and the awards ceremony lasted at least an hour in the wind as the sun was setting. The event used a bizarre raffle blind ticket means of securing anonymity, which meant we had to look at our tickets to find out if we won. Way too long and drawn out. Especially since it was cold and most of us were anxious to finish tearing down. The People's Choice was pork and was done by each team providing samples to those who had wrist bands. The winner was the team that collected the most wrist bands. I gave up half way through, about 5 o'clock, to concentrate on tearing down. I was just too tired to dole out samples in the hopes of winning $100 bucks for a butt I was not too proud of.
I did get a chance to meet GreenDriver (Chet), Bub-Ba-Q (William Lattimer) who competed and a few other Brethren like MikeHVAC who did not. Think I wrangled a new Brethren, Homer (Adam) and his wife "Chicken". We all shared stories and Q among the wind and the cold.

So here is a little pron:

Here are my ABC's (Apple Bacon Cheddar) for the dessert contest:


\

I had to use larger tins than I had planned and forget to cut the bacon a little longer for the 5" tins rather than the 4" I prefer to use. But I got to admit they tasted pretty damn good!

Now here is a little quesadilla made from the left over cheese and pie crust. Adam wanted to know why it didn't have any bacon. I asked him if he had ever heard of left over bacon.



Here is my half jointed chicken. I smoked her whole for several hours, foiled and placed her in towels in a warmed cooler. I split her about 15 minutes before turn in and placed her directly over the coal for about 5 minutes each side to firm the flesh and skin. My first call and I took 10th.



My ribs were a bomb! And not a good bomb by any means. No pull back on the bones and again tough as nails.



and in the box.



Here is the pork butt. I had a very difficult time getting the meat above 180* and had to serve her sliced. It did have a decent taste and a texture like medium rare roast beef. Here is the turn-in box, notice if you can it is unsauced. No saucing allowed after meat is removed from the cooker per ICBA regulations. This took 7th and was my final call for the day.



Now my final entery was of course the brisket. It was among the 2 or 3 best briskets I have every done. Several competitors taste tested it and admitted that they though it was better than what they turned in. Homer got 3rd in brisket and I thought hell if he got 3rd I might just have this on in the bag. But alas it wasn't to happen. Here she is after resting and sliced.



the point was just a bit to tender by KCBS standards and I submitted the flat, maybe I should have turned in the point.



All in all it was a fun time, and am looking forward to more events but I am looking forward to doing it again next year if they get sanctioning from KCBS or FBA. In the mean time I have to figure out if I can afford another competition or two before the end of the year. Maybe the Ga BBQ Assoc. event in Richland GA next month. All pork event, ribs, butt and loin. Hmmmm now I am gonna have to practice my loins.
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Last edited by Redheart; 10-19-2009 at 01:30 PM..
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Unread 10-19-2009, 02:25 PM   #2
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Sorry about that. Yes, the main guy there is Trey Field. I know him WELL, from CASI.
The judging tickets you were using are directly from CASI (that's how CASI keeps
everything blind). It is as blind as it gets, but makes for a very bizarre awards
ceremony... The local CASI Pod removed him as the main person who charges judges
because in many of our opinions he didn't instruct them well and we saw it coming
through the scores. Everything was willy-nilly. Now there's 3 of us who charge
the judges (chili). Not having CBJ's really sucks.

Sorry about that!
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Unread 10-19-2009, 04:04 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake Dogs View Post
Sorry about that. Yes, the main guy there is Trey Field. I know him WELL, from CASI.
The judging tickets you were using are directly from CASI (that's how CASI keeps
everything blind). It is as blind as it gets, but makes for a very bizarre awards
ceremony... The local CASI Pod removed him as the main person who charges judges
because in many of our opinions he didn't instruct them well and we saw it coming
through the scores. Everything was willy-nilly. Now there's 3 of us who charge
the judges (chili). Not having CBJ's really sucks.

Sorry about that!
I didn't have to say anything but IBCA and you knew what I was talking about. That just reinforces my decision not to do any of their events again. Might have to try my hand at CASI though. Is Chile Verde a legal entree?

Damn. I just hijacked my own thread.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 06:28 PM   #4
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I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the IBCA event - it is fairly new in the GA area and of course most of the teams are accustom to the KCBS, MIM or FBA assoc.

The judges are instructed on the following categories:
Aroma - in your opinion, does it smell like bbq
Color - Overall appearance, appealing to the eye
Texture - ask yourself, moist or dry, tender or tough?
Taste - How is the smoke taste, the spice taste, the overall palate
appeal of the meat/spice combination
Overall - The final criteria - Overall effect, your total impression.

Take all 5 criterias into consideration and score the container 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

We feel the that "Joe Public" knows what they like in BBQ and don't have to be trained.

Again, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your experience - but you do have a choice.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 06:37 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the IBCA event - it is fairly new in the GA area and of course most of the teams are accustom to the KCBS, MIM or FBA assoc.

The judges are instructed on the following categories:
Aroma - in your opinion, does it smell like bbq
Color - Overall appearance, appealing to the eye
Texture - ask yourself, moist or dry, tender or tough?
Taste - How is the smoke taste, the spice taste, the overall palate
appeal of the meat/spice combination
Overall - The final criteria - Overall effect, your total impression.

Take all 5 criterias into consideration and score the container 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

We feel the that "Joe Public" knows what they like in BBQ and don't have to be trained.

Again, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your experience - but you do have a choice.
Thank you for the insight into the scoring. It is much more than what was shared at the event and much more than what is presented on the IBCA website. My biggest concern about Joe Public is that Applebee's and the likes sell millions of pounds of ribs each year but that IMHO is not BBQ but that is what Joe Public thinks of when they think of ribs.

Well again thank you for the insight.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 06:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with the IBCA event - it is fairly new in the GA area and of course most of the teams are accustom to the KCBS, MIM or FBA assoc.

The judges are instructed on the following categories:
Aroma - in your opinion, does it smell like bbq
Color - Overall appearance, appealing to the eye
Texture - ask yourself, moist or dry, tender or tough?
Taste - How is the smoke taste, the spice taste, the overall palate
appeal of the meat/spice combination
Overall - The final criteria - Overall effect, your total impression.

Take all 5 criterias into consideration and score the container 1 to 10, 10 being the highest.

We feel the that "Joe Public" knows what they like in BBQ and don't have to be trained.

Again, I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your experience - but you do have a choice.

Allow me to paraphrase:

It is our system, and we like it. If you are a competitor don't like it - tough.
oh & btw Joe Public knows their BBQ
(these are the same people that keep buying the McRib at Micky Ds & Applebees ...uh-hem ribs)

That crap might work somewhere, but it won't fly where real BBQ comes from (and no it's not Texas )


Redheart - thanks for the heads up - I now don't half to decide whether or not to spend my valuable money & time competing in such a farce of a competition, where they really don't seem to want input from the competitors.
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Unread 10-19-2009, 06:47 PM   #7
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Lynn

As you know ICBA events can be pretty confusing for teams used to KCBS.

The judging procedure(which is very fair) and lack of feedback in terms of score sheets can be frustrating at first.

Often you have first time IBCAers competing in a contest where the Head Judge comes from the CASI world. This combination can lead to issues.

IBCA comps are fun. But, I think the ICBA hurts themselves when the don't have an experienced Head Judge running a first time comp. Especially when the comp is in new territory.

The same guys that win KCBS win IBCA around here...
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Unread 10-19-2009, 08:23 PM   #8
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Don't give up on IBCA events. They are as good as any KCBS event and many are probably better. Don't be fooled into thinking that a CBJ is the ultimate way to go. The IBCA judging works! Look at any of the top teams that cook both IBCA and KCBS, you will find that they win both. Oh BTW, you ignorant Farkers just stay with KCBS we won't miss you one bit!

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Unread 10-19-2009, 10:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheart View Post
Thank you for the insight into the scoring. It is much more than what was shared at the event and much more than what is presented on the IBCA website. My biggest concern about Joe Public is that Applebee's and the likes sell millions of pounds of ribs each year but that IMHO is not BBQ but that is what Joe Public thinks of when they think of ribs.

Well again thank you for the insight.
Did you happen to ask to see a judging sheet - most teams don't have the insight of asking about the judging - they just complain when they don't win - IBCA will even allow the cooks to watch the judging -

As I stated before you have the choice of competing or not in an IBCA event - if there is one in your area again offer to be a judge.

The system definitely works - the first one might be confusing but after you get accustom to the system you will see that the cream always rises to the top - as Jeff stated those teams that cook both IBCA & KCBS do well in both organizations.

Good Luck on finding a system that pleases everyone
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Unread 10-19-2009, 10:45 PM   #10
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We had both sanctioning bodies at Saturday Stagecoach in 2009
The CBJs and The Public agreed
The same team won both contests that day
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Unread 10-19-2009, 10:46 PM   #11
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One last thing - IBCA is the 2nd largest sanctioning organization behind KCBS - apparently we are doing something right.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 05:13 AM   #12
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I just have to chime in here. Some wont like what I have to say, and I am really OK with that.

I HATED IBCA contests for the longest time. I actually slammed the IBCA format for a long time.

Why?

Lack of comments from the judges.
Lack of knowing where you finished (if you werent in the top half).
Lack of CBJ's

This is now why I really like IBCA events, although I do still prefer KCBS (sorry Lynn).

No Garnish
1 hour between turn ins
Spares only (easier to cook in MHO)
Chicken halves for turn in (easier cook in MHO)

I dont like the reading of the raffle number, but it is what it is. I think it kind of takes the fun out of hearing your team name at awards.

We'll still cook both IBCA and KCBS, but ICBA is a much easier format...again......MHO.

And I do agree with Lynn on one very significant point. The cream always does rise to the top. A team named Rhythm and Que comes to mind very quickly for me.

I'm sure there will be a lot of chatter on this, but I like both formats. I do prefer KCBS (slightly) though.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:37 AM   #13
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BTW, I wasnt trying to rag on IBCA. The single person here who organizes and is
the head judge for IBCA here isn't good. He gives very little to no instruction to the
judges. They're pretty much left on their own. No oversight, etc. So, you end up
with the town Mayor, the Police Chief, and a few other local dipsticks that have
never judged anything in their life and think that BBQ is a grilled piece of something
smothered in a very powerful (taste) sauce... He did the same with CASI, didnt
give much if any instructions to judges, same pool, and same results. We'd have one
person give someone a 9, the next a 2, the scores were all over the chart.

There are only 2 IBCA events in Georgia, both managed/ran by this same person...

On the CASI side; some cookoffs have an additional event for Verde, most here in
the state dont. Pretty much it's CASI's Texas Red and then Open category. I guess
you could enter a verde in Open, but frankly without trained or experienced judges,
it's going to be tough sledding...
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:47 AM   #14
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And, BTW, Trey is a really nice guy and a great cook (makes a great Texas Red chili),
but giving guidance and instruction to never-judged-squat folks isn't his forte. Neither is selecting folks to be judges... So, you end up with willy-nilly...

> Oh BTW, you ignorant Farkers just stay with KCBS we won't miss you one bit!

FYI: We're in Georgia. There's what, 6 KCBS cookoffs in Georgia (getting more and
more each year)? 2 IBCA, about 5 MIM/MBA (fewer and fewer each year), 5+- good
FBA cookoffs, and GBA now has about 5. The 2 IBCA are the smallest in the bunch. They're not getting support and are driven by one guy who wants to move back to Texas (he ain't FROM HERE). I dont think we'll have IBCA much longer 'round here...
It's not IBCA's fault, just no support.
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Unread 10-20-2009, 06:54 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZILLA View Post
Don't give up on IBCA events. They are as good as any KCBS event and many are probably better. Don't be fooled into thinking that a CBJ is the ultimate way to go. The IBCA judging works! Look at any of the top teams that cook both IBCA and KCBS, you will find that they win both. Oh BTW, you ignorant Farkers just stay with KCBS we won't miss you one bit!
Zilla, certified judges aren't the "ultimimate way to go", but they do enjoy
eating BBQ. I cannot tell you how many times around here (in Georgia)
at non-sanctioned events I've heard and seen judges say "I dont like that
smoke flavor"; and she was juding a BBQ event! I've seen chili judges
say they dont like chili; point blank. WTFlip are they doing judging? Around
here, unless you get certified judges, you end up with event organizers
making sweet deals with local dignitaries and such who end up judging.
They bring their entire families sometimes to judge... I've heard probably
20 times a judge say "I dont like spicy foods"; judging a CHILI contest.

<--- shakes head

Ugh.

Seriously. It's not rare. That's why, for me, as a contestant, I'll stick
with the sanctioned events that use trained/certified judges and give
serious guidance to those judges who perhaps aren't certified. GBA, FBA,
KCBS, MBA.
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