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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 10-13-2009, 10:15 PM   #1
MilitantSquatter
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Default Anonymity of Comp BBQ Class Students

Had an interesting discussion recently regarding the naming of attendees of those who took a comp BBQ class and saw success afterward (ex GC/RGC, high placings in categories).

For the instructors, aside from being paid for sharing their time and wealth of knowledge and experience, there could be some degree of future gain if others see students succeeding who took their class, attribute the success to the class and now want to attend as well.

On the flip side, some students may not wish that their attendance be made public. Maybe the class was not a direct impact on their results as what they did to win was not a replica of the instructors recipes, processes etc. or they just don't want it known.

It's also only fair that students who take the class will not share the class recipes/techniques or materials with others..but that apparently happens.

Question : Should the class instructor(s) ask on class application forms if the paying student is willing to have their name noted as a class graduate if they succeed at future events (on their website, or acknowledging their success on forums contest result postings etc) or should it be up to the student to proactively request that the instructor refrain from noting their attendance before participating ?

(Please note - this is for general discussion only - not aimed at any specific classes or students)

Discuss..
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Unread 10-13-2009, 10:21 PM   #2
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Good question Yes they should ask in a release just like a contest
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Unread 10-13-2009, 10:26 PM   #3
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Good question Yes they should ask in a release just like a contest
ditto
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Unread 10-13-2009, 10:35 PM   #4
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Quote:
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Good question Yes they should ask in a release just like a contest
Ive not done a sanctioned contest in a few years here, confused about the release Thom?
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Unread 10-13-2009, 11:29 PM   #5
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Who knows, at the time a class is taken, what might transpire months in the future?
Perhaps the easiest thing would be that if a student performs admirably, the teacher can then ask if they'd be willing to promote the class.

It should go in the other direction, too. The only class we've taken has been that given by Brent and Kim Walton of QN4U, and we have always been happy to give them credit.

And absolutely, when proprietary information is disclosed for a fee, a request for non-disclosure of that information to those outside the class should be honored.
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Unread 10-13-2009, 11:31 PM   #6
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I always ask a team if I can mention their name in association with the use of my products. I've secretly delivered product to team trailers at contests. I'll never mention names unless I've cleared it with that team, even with my closest friends.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 04:57 AM   #7
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I 100% agree with DivaHerself on this topic.

I also think that if you take a class for BBQ instruction, you shouldnt share that info. It not only hurts your chances for success against other teams, but it also undermines what the teacher has taught you to shorten your learning curve. Additionally, it keeps other teams from enrolling in the teacher's class. Not fair to both student or instructor in my opinion.

I dont see the harm if students are OK with it being known that they took a particular class. If instructors want to capitalize on how their students have done, I see no issue with that either. As Thom suggested, it might be a good idea to have a clause written into the class registration form that will allow students to choose if they are willing to have their names announced as taking a particular class.

Just my thoughts.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 06:19 AM   #8
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I have taken 3 classes and being in the situation of being a winner, I don't mind anyone saying "he was a student of ours"
I don't make any recipe given to me from any of the classes the exact way they said to make something. What fun would that be.
And yes I think they should ask the students when taking the class if they want to be associated with taking the class.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantSquatter View Post
Had an interesting discussion recently regarding the naming of attendees of those who took a comp BBQ class and saw success afterward (ex GC/RGC, high placings in categories).


It's also only fair that students who take the class will not share the class recipes/techniques or materials with others..but that apparently happens.
I think it's up to the student to give credit to the class if it helped. I've done that with a couple of classes. I don't think the instructor should claim credit unless they can prove it was their teaching that made the difference.

As far as not sharing recipes/techniques well that's difficult to determine. I use a very similar technique to Mike Davis and Johnny Trigg for my chicken but it's modified to my cooker and my cooking style. Recipes are my own. So if I do something similar to 2 teachers is it their technique or mine? And I know there are hundreds of cooks out there that are uusing a similar technique. The top teachers will tell you that their method works for them using their cooker and you will need to take what you learn and develop your own method.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:18 AM   #10
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It's been pretty well-known that I took Rod and Johnny's class. And I think Johnny still mentions it in classes that I took the class and won the jack. (your results may vary..lol).. They didn't get permission from me to say that I took the class, but I don't care really. I consider them freinds, and I do what I can to help freinds. If saying that helps them make more money, more power to them.

I got some good ideas from that class, and got my mind out of some paradigms I've been stuck in, and came up with ways to think out of the box. I believe if a person wants to win BBQ contests, and if classes are offered, they need to take them, and practice a lot. If you want to win bad enough, you take advantage of things offered to you.. If there is a class close by, don't think for a minute I wouldn't consider it.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:49 AM   #11
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Well, I took three classes and haven't done crap with it, so they don't quote me... oh wait, did I say I took a class?

I think the classes should identify in the class whether they will or won't share. You're exactly right, I've known several people who take a class that don't want it known.

One thing I do find unacceptable, is a note for note repetition of the rubs or techniques someone learned in a class then they "share" it as their method. It's really disingenious to the class leader and I know several who teach a class that have that very issue, but they can't really publicize there problem.

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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:51 AM   #12
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I think the question is legally do they need permission from you.

What if … you take the class. Don’t like it, didn’t get what you were promised, teachings were bad and you ultimately take nothing from the class.
You later have success in contests and they start using your name. Most of us do not have our team names trade marked. And the facts are that you did take the class.

I think most of us would be glad to help someone that helped you. But what if they didn’t help?
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Unread 10-14-2009, 07:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbqbull View Post
Ive not done a sanctioned contest in a few years here, confused about the release Thom?
We have a release on entry forms for the use of your image, liability, etc.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 09:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Podge View Post
It's been pretty well-known that I took Rod and Johnny's class. And I think Johnny still mentions it in classes that I took the class and won the jack. (your results may vary..lol).. They didn't get permission from me to say that I took the class, but I don't care really. I consider them freinds, and I do what I can to help freinds. If saying that helps them make more money, more power to them.

I got some good ideas from that class, and got my mind out of some paradigms I've been stuck in, and came up with ways to think out of the box. I believe if a person wants to win BBQ contests, and if classes are offered, they need to take them, and practice a lot. If you want to win bad enough, you take advantage of things offered to you.. If there is a class close by, don't think for a minute I wouldn't consider it.

That's the key, Podge. Classes won't necessarily make you an instant winner. It is what you learn from that and then make your own that has real staying power. Our first big class like this was the very first Lotta Bull class in Lynchburg. As you said, it broke a lot of paradigms for us that we'd been stuck in and didn't think to question. I can't say that we use any recipes or much in the way of presentations, but it was a huge shift from about second gear into third. I then took Rod's first class before Johnny was on board. That was a shift from third to fourth. Fourth to overdrive is what I've added from there.
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Unread 10-14-2009, 10:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ford View Post
I think it's up to the student to give credit to the class if it helped. I've done that with a couple of classes. I don't think the instructor should claim credit unless they can prove it was their teaching that made the difference.

As far as not sharing recipes/techniques well that's difficult to determine. I use a very similar technique to Mike Davis and Johnny Trigg for my chicken but it's modified to my cooker and my cooking style. Recipes are my own. So if I do something similar to 2 teachers is it their technique or mine? And I know there are hundreds of cooks out there that are using a similar technique. The top teachers will tell you that their method works for them using their cooker and you will need to take what you learn and develop your own method.
I hate to do it but I agree with Ford. I too have taken a class with Rod and Johnny and it did help. But since my primary cooker is a Lang there are things that I had to change in my techniques because it just didn't work the way it was taught... I have also changed the recipes that I received from them and IMHO have made them my own (I would say that each one is about 1/2 mine and 1/2 theirs)...

To me, the class was more of a smack on the back of my head to wake me up to trying something different than doing it the same way that they did...

I guess what I'm saying is that I wouldn't have a problem with them saying I took the class but they would need to acknowledge that I'm not doing it 'exactly' as they taught it...
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