ブタ
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Q-talk

Notices

Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 09-23-2009, 04:03 PM   #1
Redheart
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Redheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-03-09
Location: Burris Crossroads, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default Burnt Sugar form Rubs

I have heard many times and seen it posted many times, that the sugar in the rub burned. Well lets consider a few facts about sugar.

Sugar doesn't caramelize till 320*. Doesn't burn till 350*.

Syrup sugars like honey and maple syrup will tolerate a little more heat because they need to boil off moisture. But not much.

Maple sap starts boiling only about 7 degrees higher than water. It also is not considered syrup till it is boiled down to 67% sugar content. So bottled syrup does not have a very large window before all the moisture is driven off and the sugar content is susceptible to burning.

At temperatures as low as 100* honey starts to caramelize converting the sugars something very close to cane sugar. Again it shouldn't really burn till about 365* but it will effect the honey flavour.

So hear are my thoughts.

If you are burning your rub during a low and slow you are:

A) Burning something other than the sugar in your rub.
B) Burning at a temp beyond low.
C) Using way too much smoke creating 'stale' smoke allowing the rub to absorb too much of the acrid nature of the smoke.
D)Using smoke for too long during the cook and discolouring the meat and drying the bark out till it has the quality of charred meat.

If you want a sweetened rub you must go low and slow otherwise you will get a bitter burnt taste. Burnt sugar has a very definite taste and smell. I know many a old hand at this may not agree with the facts above and insist sugar burns at about 265* but it is really not the case.

If you must have sweet and high heat try brining, since the internal temperature of the meat should never come close to these temperatures not even 265*. Try making a sweet sauce to glaze the meat and add a couple of layers of the sauce about before pulling the meat. Or try a pan of water in with your smoke. This will keep hotter temperature smokes cooler though the absorption of heat due to the heat sump nature of the pan of water and then again through the cooling effects of evaporation.

So if you are burning the rub on your meats, don't blame the rub. Look at your technique and adjust where needed.

I am taping pillows to my butt ' cause I know the a$$beating I am gone take for this post.
__________________
"Red"
Redheart is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 04:13 PM   #2
BBQ Grail
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
BBQ Grail's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-11-03
Location: Rocklin, CA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Rest assured no one here wants to touch your butt....

As for the post. Nice knowledge.
__________________
Larry

The best way to reach me is with email: larry@thebbqgrail.com
BBQ Grail is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 04:18 PM   #3
bigabyte
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
bigabyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-10-06
Location: Overland Fark, KS
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 1
Default

I agree 100%.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=62646
__________________
Asshattatron Farkanaut, CGCFO
Chief Galactic Crockpot Foil Officer
Certified MOINK Baller & IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball Judge #0003 - Are you MOINK Certified?
Sole recipient of the Silverfinger and fingerlickin Awards!

Don't forget about the Throwdown Thingies!
The Secret Squirrel Society doesn't exist - Zero Club



Duh.
bigabyte is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 04:47 PM   #4
Bushwacker
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Bushwacker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-13-09
Location: Cape Coma, Fl.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Thanks for the Info Red... It sounds Like good advice to me,,, But what the heck do I know,LMBO. I'm still a newbie...
__________________
Charm-Glo Gasser, Generic Grill,
Smoker conversion,
State Park Charcoal Grill.
UDS (Under Construction)
Bushwacker is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 05:13 PM   #5
NCGuy68
Full Fledged Farker
 
NCGuy68's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-29-09
Location: In the stix, NC
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

My homemade rub with sugar produces a nice bark that everyone likes. Its never been called 'burnt'. And yes, I do cook low and slow.
__________________
Smoke 'em if ya got 'em
NCGuy68 is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 07:28 PM   #6
mrwicks
Knows what a fatty is.
 
Join Date: 05-15-09
Location: Chicago IL South Side Go Cubs!!!
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

only once had a problem with my homemade, soon to try to take commercial, rub......that was because i was drinking way too much and trying to talk to all the skirts in the park......forgot i had ribs on the smoker
__________________
Some WSMs,some OTG 22's,some OTG 18's, 1 26.75 OTG, 1 UDS Type...and a Smokey Joe
mrwicks is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 07:38 PM   #7
smknhotmama
is One Chatty Farker

 
smknhotmama's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-02-09
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBQ Grail View Post
Rest assured no one here wants to touch your butt....

As for the post. Nice knowledge.
ha ha ha ha..that made me snort!
__________________
~Shawn~ Big Green Egg: Eggamemnon- Greek for "working slowly"
smknhotmama is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 09:07 PM   #8
Redheart
is one Smokin' Farker
 
Redheart's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-03-09
Location: Burris Crossroads, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigabyte View Post

Thanks for the Mad Scientist approach to the problem. But I have to ask ....l Kool -Aid? How did you ever come up with that?
__________________
"Red"
Redheart is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-23-2009, 11:08 PM   #9
Meat Burner
Quintessential Chatty Farker
 
Meat Burner's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-22-07
Location: Springfield, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Redheart...brother.... you are waaay over thining this. RELAX and enjoy good BBQ. Facts are only a starting point but if you think you can put all these facts together and make a cook work....won't happen. A brisket of the same brand and size may take 8 hours or 15 hours. It is done when it is done, period! All of your questions are ligitimate but it all boils down to trial and error based on what you are cooking on. Try your theories and techniques and keep us posted. JUST COOK SOMETHING and take notes. Not too many notes though!
__________________
my avatar swiped fatties from the plate....look how sorry he is.
________
Meat.

NB Bandera with mods
Weber 22 .5" x 2, 26.75" x 1
UDS x 3
KCBS CBJ
Created "The Great Spam Revelation of 2011."
www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111155
Meat Burner is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-24-2009, 08:44 AM   #10
bigabyte
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
bigabyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-10-06
Location: Overland Fark, KS
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redheart View Post
Thanks for the Mad Scientist approach to the problem. But I have to ask ....l Kool -Aid? How did you ever come up with that?
It wasn't hard to come up with at all. It was there in the pantry when I was checking for more stuff to test. Actually, before that I had tried a rib rub with cherry Kool-Aid powder in it, so when i saw the packet I figured I better go ahead and put it in the test too. I heard about using the Kool-Aid while chatting with a guy who was trying to duplicate a Cherry Rub he really liked. The Kool-Aid does not duplicate the same cherry flavor as the rub he was trying to duplicate, but a cherry flavor that is not at all offensive is right there front and center!
__________________
Asshattatron Farkanaut, CGCFO
Chief Galactic Crockpot Foil Officer
Certified MOINK Baller & IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball Judge #0003 - Are you MOINK Certified?
Sole recipient of the Silverfinger and fingerlickin Awards!

Don't forget about the Throwdown Thingies!
The Secret Squirrel Society doesn't exist - Zero Club



Duh.
bigabyte is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-24-2009, 08:52 AM   #11
TrustTheDust
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 08-29-09
Location: Prairie Village, KS
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

great post. good insight.
TrustTheDust is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-24-2009, 09:35 AM   #12
prudog
On the road to being a farker
 
Join Date: 08-12-09
Location: Huntsville, AL
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Hmmm... for 4-5 years, the old dogs on another forum had me convinced that 275* was magic number for burning sugar. I have now been removed of my blinders and will take a more objective assessment.

Now I know where the mad scientist went too. Thanks for the posts everyone!
prudog is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-24-2009, 10:34 AM   #13
RubMeTender
Full Fledged Farker
 
Join Date: 02-16-09
Location: Seminole, FL
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I've spoken on this before. Paprika has a lower burning point than sugar, and actually contains quite a bit of natural sugar. Certain types of paprika will also get bitter if it's cooked too high too long.
RubMeTender is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-24-2009, 11:27 AM   #14
bigabyte
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
bigabyte's Avatar
 
Join Date: 05-10-06
Location: Overland Fark, KS
Downloads: 1
Uploads: 1
Default

Hey Prudog, good to see another familiar face here. There's a few faces here from other forums.

I also agree about the Paprika being a likely factor for most people. A lot of people use a fair amount of paprika in their rubs, and depending on what kind you use it may wind up burnt tasting.
__________________
Asshattatron Farkanaut, CGCFO
Chief Galactic Crockpot Foil Officer
Certified MOINK Baller & IMBAS Certified MOINK Ball Judge #0003 - Are you MOINK Certified?
Sole recipient of the Silverfinger and fingerlickin Awards!

Don't forget about the Throwdown Thingies!
The Secret Squirrel Society doesn't exist - Zero Club



Duh.
bigabyte is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 09-24-2009, 12:03 PM   #15
Hugh Jorgan
is One Chatty Farker
 
Hugh Jorgan's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-13-09
Location: Metrolina
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Over a long period of time, at temperature of around 100 C, sugar will discolor and take on bad flavors.

http://sciencelinks.jp/j-east/articl...07A0208743.php
__________________
Hot Rod Hog Cookers Association, Charter Member, President
Hugh Jorgan is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rubs & Salt % , Sugar % gotwood Q-talk 17 08-09-2008 05:24 PM
Shout out form L.A. jeffjenkins1 Cattle Call !!! 37 03-18-2008 05:34 PM
How much sugar do you use in your pork rib rubs? Bamabuzzard Q-talk 16 05-15-2007 05:41 AM
Low-Sugar Rubs/ Mops VitaminQ Q-talk 14 10-13-2005 08:23 PM
Sugar in rubs ddog27 Q-talk 12 07-02-2005 08:10 AM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts