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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 08-03-2009, 04:31 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgassaway View Post
I held pretty close to 250° all day and foiled at 170 (about 6hrs into the cook). After just a short time in the foil the internal temp read 194° so I pulled the foil and put her back on the fire to toughen the bark just a little.

Once removed from the foil my internal temp dropped to 170ish again so I left it on without the foil until I reached 194° and it probed fairly easy (should it be as easy to probe as a pork butt?) She seemed to hold in at 170ish for a long time before finally climbing up to temp. Total cook time 10-1/2 hrs or so.

I cook mostly flats and have always foiled 4-5 hours into the smoke. I leave the flats in the foil in their juice when resting. I may be reading your post wrong or not have enough info---did you refoil after setting the bark to let it rest? I believe if you removed the flat from the first foiling without letting it rest to absorb some of the juice and put it back on the smoker that the juice was already gone. Does that make sense?
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Unread 08-03-2009, 04:33 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
Now I'm just waiting on the rebuttal of the smoke rings being "photo shopped". Are they doctored? Will he admit it? Tune in for the latest...
Whatever he does... the ring is perfect
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Unread 08-03-2009, 04:36 PM   #33
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there is another option... LOL I have seen this done with flats...

the person probes and probes and probes but misses the time period when its just right .... the next time he probes it has given up all its moisture, which makes it grab the probe more resistence wise and then the chef continues to cook and cook thinking he has yet to reach the right level of doneness... which of course has long since passed.
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Unread 08-03-2009, 04:36 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
Whatever he does... the ring is perfect
I hear finger nail polish works pretty good too. Gives a bit of a tang in the meat but it sure is purty!!!
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Unread 08-03-2009, 04:56 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
there is another option... LOL I have seen this done with flats...

the person probes and probes and probes but misses the time period when its just right .... the next time he probes it has given up all its moisture, which makes it grab the probe more resistence wise and then the chef continues to cook and cook thinking he has yet to reach the right level of doneness... which of course has long since passed.
I think this is what might have happened to me. Since I was working and cooking, I may have missed that point when I should have pulled it. Does not matter, since I learned something from the experience.
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Unread 08-03-2009, 06:30 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
Whatever he does... the ring is perfect
No chit.

All the brisket I have eaten until about a year ago was gassed. They were pretty good too, (gasp, who said that?). When I tried to BBQ them on the pit, I had all kinds of problems.

The best one I did myself, I fell asleep and left it on too long, but the coals were almost out when I took it off. Since the fire was almost dead and it had been on so long, we just went ahead and shredded it and started eating. That baby was delicious! The bark was too thick but the inner meat was heavenly. I don't know what happened and have cooked two since with less than stellar results.

Even the good ones though, they dry out right away it seems. No matter how good and juicy they are, after slicing or shredding, they seem to dry out before you can eat a sandwich. I have MUCH better luck using chuck roasts when I want to roast beef.

#edit#
Every time I get to thinking about brisket. I see this in my head. It's really interfering with my game.

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Last edited by Hugh Jorgan; 08-03-2009 at 06:47 PM..
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Unread 08-04-2009, 09:44 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron_L View Post
I am curious why you did this. It was already up to 194 and it probed easily, so why put it back in to cook more? That is probably what dried it out. As long as it is above 140 when you take it out of the foil, slice it and enjoy!

Injecting and some extra fat it the fat cap was trimmed of can't help, either.
Temp climbed to 194° rather fast but it still felt pretty firm when probed. My thought was put it back to firm up the bark and finish cooking, It could have been over cooked already by then??? I'm sure I overcooked it, just not sure when I passed the done mark.
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Unread 08-04-2009, 10:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamabuzzard View Post
I hear finger nail polish works pretty good too. Gives a bit of a tang in the meat but it sure is purty!!!
I'm deeply hurt. Can't a brother get a break!

All photos are official bbq-brethren UDS approved unaltered or enhanced photographs although the fingernail polish thing is good to know.

I don't know why, although I tell my wife it is a sign of a true bbq master, that I get a good ring on briskets? Both have been rubbed with Montreal Steak Season one. This last one was smoked with hickory and I don't remember what i used on the 1st but both have a good smoke ring, this last one is deep red. Not sure why but I'll take it!
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Unread 08-04-2009, 10:23 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barbefunkoramaque View Post
there is another option... LOL I have seen this done with flats...

the person probes and probes and probes but misses the time period when its just right .... the next time he probes it has given up all its moisture, which makes it grab the probe more resistence wise and then the chef continues to cook and cook thinking he has yet to reach the right level of doneness... which of course has long since passed.
I think you nailed it right here. After all the replies I think it was probably done much sooner and I either did not probe soon enough or just missed the time when it was done.

So, start probing when and how often?

Should it actually probe as easily as a pork butt?
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Unread 08-04-2009, 11:47 AM   #40
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I start probing at 5 hours, I am doing a high heat system similar to Saiko, so I am expecting 6 hours as a guideline. I got fooled the last time I think. For the record, my first brisket was really good, a little too salty for me. It did stay juicy and was really good the next day on sandwiches.

I think the ring might be because you are using Montreal Steak seasoning, which has mystery spices in it.
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Unread 08-04-2009, 01:04 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by landarc View Post
I think the ring might be because you are using Montreal Steak seasoning, which has mystery spices in it.
That brings up a good question. The Montreal Steak Seasoning is a little salty for my taste as well. What do ya'll use as a rub for briskets?
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Unread 08-04-2009, 03:01 PM   #42
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This all brings up something

The Montreal is simular to my trilevel final rub. It actually WAS MY rub at the end until I could make it cheaper, then I adjusted it.

This on one thing I think is funny about "experiments." The access to too much information is a disaster waiting to happen for those that do not understand empirical (all other factors being normal) methods. You cannot go through 14 different ways of doing a brisket and pick and chose and expect not to waste some meat.

About Montreal (Or my rub) and its uses.

Adopting a new Technique you see here, then putting your own "spin" on it Before you commit to the "experiment" or technique is not an "experiment" but a mess.

In my article Rub ratios and salt I make a case that a brisket packer can only hold "x" amount of rub naturally.

Eg. 1 - Add some kind of watering agent of mustard and it adds more... at that point, unbeknownst to you, you are doubling my recipe on the brisket and perhaps trippling it.

eg. 2 - Next, if the recipe calls for a PACKER then dumping the brisket in a vat of spice as I do once it has been dried picks up "x" amount of rub that has to be balanced by dividing the surface area I treated with the rub with all the meat inside that is not treated. This means that when you chose to do a recipe like this with a flat... you are increasing the salt ratio.
This is why we don't treat ribs the same way... higher rub to mass ratio.

eg 3 - So now you want to do the rub technique or the high salt technique on a packer precisely done this way... then you foil it. The original recipe was for free basting and draining, now you are braising the meat in its own (quite salty) drippings. result - salty.

eg - 4 - or a person decides to use a mop, which depending on the mop, can reduce the level of salt, raise it as well as change the cooking time thus the exposure to the smoke - result, not the same thing.

eg - 5 user decides to do the whole thing at 220 degrees when a recipe (high salt) is designed for an aggressive hot smoke of 325... the rub that was desgned to be robust enough to hold on and impact a body of meat that is weeping, sizzling and spewing a mist of juices an fat, thereby basting the meat and dripping more salt as well as reducing the bite of the pepper, is now going to be saltier and hotter due to the lacxk of the same effect on the rub and meat.

So - sure experiementation is cool, as is putting your own spin on things, but if you want to save money, pick a technique, stick to it for the first time, then try to decide what LITTLE thing you might change.
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Unread 08-04-2009, 03:03 PM   #43
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ps Montreal has no impact on ring really. I mean I don't think there is a magic ingredient like sea salt or TQ in it.
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Unread 08-04-2009, 03:12 PM   #44
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That whole section of you put it back on the pit after foiling it to crisp it up is what makes the alarm bell go off for me. I've cooked super trim flats many times with good results. 195 to 170 to 195...that sounds like the issue right there.
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Unread 08-04-2009, 04:06 PM   #45
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I agree Zilla. There is somthing real suspect about the temperature readings here. I find it hard to believe that kind of temp drop from just removing the brisket from the smoker and wrapping. Somethings not accure.
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