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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-19-2009, 04:34 PM   #1
QueTPiesBBQ
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Does anyone think that getting some form of feedback from the judges would be helpful other than a score? I think it would help get an idea of how your meat actually did. Say you got a 9 in taste from one judge and a 5 in taste from another judge. I figure just a bad score, but feedback would be nice.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 07:14 PM   #2
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KCBS has been experimenting this this for a couple of years now. From what I hear, it hasn't been that helpful.

A team got a card this weekend from a judge in Washington, MO. It said the "Flavor was great, but a little too tender". Score: 8-9-5. So, it was one of the best briskets they'd ever tasted, but it was too tender? To me, that's a little hard to decipher.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 07:22 PM   #3
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I agree with you on that one. The last contest we got straight nines from one judge and then got a 8-5-7 from another judge on the same thing. I guess if just matters about what judge you get. Having a hard time figuring out what the judges are looking for, anyone got any ideas?
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Unread 04-19-2009, 07:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
KCBS has been experimenting this this for a couple of years now. From what I hear, it hasn't been that helpful.

A team got a card this weekend from a judge in Washington, MO. It said the "Flavor was great, but a little too tender". Score: 8-9-5. So, it was one of the best briskets they'd ever tasted, but it was too tender? To me, that's a little hard to decipher.
I can see your point...if I get that card I'm just more frustrated, could be a system to help ID judges that need a bit more training?
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Unread 04-19-2009, 07:39 PM   #5
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At least it would give you something to work from. Anyway to find out if we had any comment cards from judges at Washington? Even if there is deciphering to be done, on an aggregate it gives you an idea from contest to contest if changes you are making are being noticed.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 09:32 PM   #6
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I am one that thinks that comment cards are a good idea. We had them for an entire season in New England and they do give you some insight, but it may not be what you were hoping for.
Yeah, you are going to have the occasional "no burnt ends' on your pork comment card, but, hey... you know those comments aren't the ones you are looking for.
When contests did use them, they came back with our score sheets.

I'd like to see judges comments on anything that is below average, or totally skewed from the rest of the table.
Not necessarily different cards either, the back of the slip works fine.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 10:42 PM   #7
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Juding is just onething I do not understand. For example dessert we turned in this this weekend in salisbury. Almost all the judges gave us 7 or 8 couple 9's and then 4 5 3 come on. I dont get it if you have all the judges say it's good but then one judge gives you those scores.Maybe they didn't like it, but they should judge it on what is was. I can see if a few judges had low scores but just one come on.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 10:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthole View Post
At least it would give you something to work from. Anyway to find out if we had any comment cards from judges at Washington? Even if there is deciphering to be done, on an aggregate it gives you an idea from contest to contest if changes you are making are being noticed.
It would have been stapled to your score sheet if you got one.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 11:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
A team got a card this weekend from a judge in Washington, MO. It said the "Flavor was great, but a little too tender". Score: 8-9-5. So, it was one of the best briskets they'd ever tasted, but it was too tender? To me, that's a little hard to decipher.
Could they have been trying to convey that to them it seemed overcooked? That's about the only thing that I could get out of that, but why wouldn't hey have used that word?


We're still puzzling over a "Watery, yet dry" comment.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 12:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plowboy View Post
KCBS has been experimenting this this for a couple of years now. From what I hear, it hasn't been that helpful.

A team got a card this weekend from a judge in Washington, MO. It said the "Flavor was great, but a little too tender". Score: 8-9-5. So, it was one of the best briskets they'd ever tasted, but it was too tender? To me, that's a little hard to decipher.

It makes perfect sense to me. A good judge does not skew one judging criteria because of the entry's performance in another. This judge was telling you the taste of your entry was tops, but they felt the brisket was overcooked.

You can have terrific flavor in a brisket that is so soft you can't pick up a slice intact, just as you can have a really ugly box that bombs in presentation but scores well in taste and tenderness. Sounds like you got some good feedback on what the judge was thinking. That's the purpose of the feedback cards, to help cooks understand why they got the scores they did, not necessarily for you to agree with the comments.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 06:12 AM   #11
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As an experienced chili cook. Comments are allowed in the ICS events. Overall, they are often useless. It's very common to have "too salty" and "not enough salt", "too spicy" and "bland" all for the same chili. I'd think that you could get similar type comments on BBQ. Another problem is they can be downright mean. I've seen "tastes like dog food" which does nothing but drive that cook away from future contests.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 08:05 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QueTPiesBBQ View Post
Does anyone think that getting some form of feedback from the judges would be helpful other than a score? I think it would help get an idea of how your meat actually did. Say you got a 9 in taste from one judge and a 5 in taste from another judge. I figure just a bad score, but feedback would be nice.
Comment cards are supposed to be available to the judges at every KCBS contest this year. They have had them at every contest I have been to so far in 2009. They are optional though, so there is nothing to require judges to fill them out.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 09:16 PM   #13
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As a judge I have learned to do the following .. right or wrong. When I do the appearance it is simple... does it look like I want to dive in and absorb every once of it..... or am I going to pass it by in a buffet line. It's that simple..... Take into consideration that I know what the food should look like.

With taste.... it is a matter of personal judgement. I have judged events in different parts of the country and experienced the different flavors used in regions of the country. I love the difference. I don't think there is a set taste.... but my taste buds let me know if I like it or not. And my sheet normally tells me if I left any of it behind.

Tenderness.... tough. KCBS gives us clues in what the tenderness should be. Ribs... leave a mouth impression.... should not fall off the bone.... Brisket... the pull test... if it falls apart in my hand it is overcooked. If I can't pull it apart it is too tough. If it separates after a little pull.... wonderful.

An entry can look like crap..... taste out of this world.... and not meet my tenderness expectations. That's why they have three catagories.

There are bigger issues i have with the scoring process.. but I will save them for another day or another thread.....
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Unread 04-20-2009, 09:43 PM   #14
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Comment cards would be great for new teams but those that have cooked a few comps probably already have an idea if something wasnt quite right. I used to think the comment cards were a great idea but after a few comps most already know if something was off. I know that our team does. I guess Im saying that we dont need a Judge telling me that our brisket was bland & tough. I already know that!

I dont think veteran teams need any more help anyhow. :)
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Unread 04-21-2009, 06:18 AM   #15
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I got a comment card this weekend that said "rib meat was very difficult to pull off the bone". Score on the comment sheet was a 4. I checked my scores and I didn't have anything below an 8. I took it to the Rep and he said that the individual judge is responsible for putting the correct team # on the card so it gets to the right person. Someone failed to get their card that should have recieved it.
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