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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-14-2009, 01:12 PM   #1
nancee
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That was not the original title for this thread...I think you guys can figure it out

KCBS Fires New England Area Reps

The KCBS Board of Directors made the determination to remove Ken and
Kathy Dakai as KCBS Reps and Ken as a CBJ instructor. The reason was
listed on the KCBS Quick Notes from the Board 4/8/09 and was stated
as: involved for conduct unbecoming the best interest of KCBS. This
info can be found on the KCBS web site. Hopefully the upcoming minutes
from that meeting will shed more light on the situation. Because, for
the moment, it's a decision that is leaving many in the dark.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 01:14 PM   #2
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BTW...thanks to Mike and Brendan for sharing this lastest bit of board insanity
They wrote it, not me...
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Unread 04-14-2009, 01:32 PM   #3
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I think the KCBS BOD should revise our purpose for the KCBS then.

"THE KANSAS CITY BARBEQUE SOCIETY (KCBS), a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting and enjoying barbeque, is the world's largest organization of barbeque and grilling enthusiasts with over 8,000 members worldwide."

There should be an insert to that statement... Only if it's a KCBS promotion and we get our cut...

As a KCBS member, I am saddened by this. We, KCBS, can rid of trusted and respected reps.... who is next?

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Unread 04-14-2009, 02:35 PM   #4
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There are a lot of people waiting to hear why the leaders of KCBS did this. They act on behalf of all KCBS members, so I think we deserve to hear why two of the most respected contest reps needed to be *removed*.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 07:54 PM   #5
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Is this is related to the recent round of cease & desist letters issued by KCBS to various organizers of non-santioned events (some of which were grilling only) and perceived to be infringing on "KCBS-style" ? Not saying they were wrong, but the approach, severity and timing seem to be questionable at the very least.

I guess if your a rep, your not allowed to be affiliated with anything other than KCBS. Who knows, next thing they may require that if you are a registered KCBS team you won't be allowed to participate in any non-sanctioned events.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:05 PM   #6
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From the minutes. Like Vinny, I'd wove to hear what constitutes KCBS style.

Merl Whitebook presented the issue of the appropriate response to contests which utilize KCBS’s Intellectual Property. The Board discussed the many vehicles to access KCBS including:
Sanctioning (Traditional KCBS 4 meat contests)
Competitive Series (Non Traditional, i.e. LP Que)
1st Time Licensed Contest (No State Championship)
Non-traditional one day contest. (grilling contests)

The Board is working hard to make available the “KCBS Style” of contest to every type of BBQ competition. KCBS would like to extend every opportunity for all types of contests to come under the KCBS network. However the Board has determined, it will not allow unauthorized use of intellectual property for those whom are not a KCBS contest.

Contest Rep Committee Carol Whitebook
The Board discussed the conduct of Contest Reps and made a determination to remove the Contest Reps involved for conduct unbecoming the best interest of KCBS.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:09 PM   #7
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Ughh...


The way this legal fiasco can play out makes you think that the KCBS scoring system, judges card and judges paper plate are so advanced that no one else could conceive of such a complex process to rate BBQ meat. Wonder how far "intellectual property" extends in the eyes of KCBS.. does that include turn-in times, double-blind juding process etc. ?

"Non-traditional one day contest (grilling contests)"

Looks like aside from preventing useage of KCBS material (which is certainly justified), they just want a cut to make anything related to outdoor cooking competions KCBS sanctioned.. assuming that every organizer wants their event sanctioned.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:24 PM   #8
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Sounds to me like KCBS now wants a cut of everything contest and meat related. Hope they don't send Food Network a cease and desist for any of their competitions that include any sort of outdoor cooking and judging that isn't KCBS.

What bullspit. For some places being 'KCBS sanctioned' isn't that important, or worth the money. But they idea that KCBS invented the ability to judge BBQ is laughable. They'd get their azzes handed to them in court if they tried to sue based on their logic. Their attempting to copyright the 'idea' that food can be judged?
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nthole View Post
Their attempting to copyright the 'idea' that food can be judged?
Maybe just on a scale of 2-9 when presented in sytrofoam boxes and layed out on slightly waxed paper with 6 boxes on it.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilitantSquatter View Post
Ughh...


The way this legal fiasco can play out makes you think that the KCBS scoring system, judges card and judges paper plate are so advanced that no one else could conceive of such a complex process to rate BBQ meat. Wonder how far "intellectual property" extends in the eyes of KCBS.. does that include turn-in times, double-blind juding process etc. ?

"Non-traditional one day contest (grilling contests)"

Looks like aside from preventing useage of KCBS material (which is certainly justified), they just want a cut to make anything related to outdoor cooking competions KCBS sanctioned.. assuming that every organizer wants their event sanctioned.

I would think it is a slippery slope. KCBS offers sanctioning to all kinds of events... But if something does not want "sanctioning" -- It is the judging, process and reps, etc that make it a KCBS event. Judging food and scoring it... done by random folks, and not trying to gain any points, etc... I think it is tough to say you are infringing. I would think the events rules would play into it -- are they the same as the KCBS rules? Very interesting stuff.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:40 PM   #11
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It sounds like they may have used the software to help score in a non-sanctioned event?

If that is the case, I think it would warrant a warning and a letter to all KCBS reps about not letting this happen again. If it's happened repeatedly then maybe the punishment is justified.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:47 PM   #12
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I think that it would be reasonable to reserve judgment on this until we either have more information or come to the conclusion that no more information will be forthcoming.

It would safe to assume that the problem is not just that Ken and Kathy are associated with NEBS while also being KCBS reps. Ken and Kathy carefully avoided attending and/or repping events that they were scheduled for that were not KCBS sanctioned. In addition, the Lovely's are also associated with NEBS while being KCBS reps.

It may be prudent to hold off on passing judgement until all the facts are in.

Unfortunately, the KCBS would probably be wise to NOT publically state why they are removing Ken and Kathy from the rosters of Reps. That is certainly the recommendation of any competent employment lawyer when offering counsel regarding former employees. Actually, if they are concerned about the possibility of a lawsuit they may have an obligation to the organization and membership to NOT make any information public.

In the meantime, I have helped to organize two events that Ken and Kathy helped at and they could not have been more dillegent, proactive and helpful.

I sincerly hope that this is resolved as quickly as possible.

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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:52 PM   #13
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Maybe this type of stuff will drive organizations like the NFL to examine the various local weekend warrior flag football leagues for using a four quarter system using a timer and allocating 6 pts for touchdowns as officiated by a referree
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Unread 04-14-2009, 08:58 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watertowerbbq View Post
It sounds like they may have used the software to help score in a non-sanctioned event?

If that is the case, I think it would warrant a warning and a letter to all KCBS reps about not letting this happen again. If it's happened repeatedly then maybe the punishment is justified.
This in NOT correct. I have first hand knowledge of this.
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Unread 04-14-2009, 09:02 PM   #15
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Are KCBS Reps paid employees?

If so, then this is a personel matter and the employer has an obligation to NOT make the reasons for dismissal public.

If the reps wish to speak out, they can, but KCBS shouldn't.
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