ಚಿಕನ್
The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ > For the Board

Notices

For the Board *On Topic Only* Strictly moderated. NO BAD KARMA! This forum is for questions and discussions you would like reviewed by members of the KCBS(or other BBQ orgs) Board of Directors. A clean and direct place where they do not have to wade thru day to day chatter.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 04-28-2009, 02:13 PM   #1
motoeric
Babbling Farker
 
motoeric's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-07-06
Location: huntington, ny
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default KCBS Protected IP's

(Cross posted from another thread)

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8- The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric
__________________
Smoke Signals
Current Issue

A BBQ Brethren Publication
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Exodus 12:9
motoeric is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 02:17 PM   #2
Scottie
Babbling Farker
 
Scottie's Avatar
 
Join Date: 11-03-06
Location: Chi-Town
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

***** While this is not a legal opinion... *****

I do collect a paycheck from a law firm that does do a lot of IP work. So my *guess* would be yes, those are all protected.....
__________________
cancersuckschicago.com
FROM SEA TO SHINING SEA BBQ TOUR

Red Jambo one off
FE 100
FEC 100
WSM
Homer Simpson 22 " Weber Kettle
Red 18 1/2" Weber Kettle
Black 26 3/4" Weber Kettle
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 02:24 PM   #3
HeSmellsLikeSmoke
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
HeSmellsLikeSmoke's Avatar
 
Join Date: 04-02-07
Location: Warren, Vermont
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoeric View Post
(Cross posted from another thread)

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8- The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric
Seems like "Kansas City Style" couldn't be protected.
__________________
Jim - Another transplanted Texan
Former KCBS CBJ

Large and Medium Big Green Eggs , Black 18.5" WSM, Blue Weber Performer - Stainless, Green Weber OTG Kettle , Brinkmann SnP Pro, and a Stainless UDS. One retired Portable Kitchen grill.

Red Thermapen, Maverick ET-732, EdgePro Apex Sharpener.

Avatar is the original 1951 Weber Kettle
HeSmellsLikeSmoke is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 03:02 PM   #4
timzcardz
Babbling Farker

 
timzcardz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-22-05
Location: Long Island, NY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoeric View Post
(Cross posted from another thread)

For the record, I am in favor of aggressively protecting any IP owned by the organization. Unfortunately, if those IP's aren't clearly defined it leaves things open to debate and guess work. As someone who helps with events that are not KCBS sanctioned (as well as ones that are), I'm forced to make assumptions on what would and would not be an infringement of the KCBS's rights.

Are the following considered to be protected IP's by the KCBS?

1) 6 judges to the table.
2) Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket
3) Categories of Taste, Texture and Appearance
4) The order that the categories are turned in
5) Turn in times
6) The term 'Kansas City Style'
7) The weighting system for scoring
8- The range of values to judge categories on


Thanks,

Eric
1) Olympics better look out! Don't they use 6 judges in Gymnastics?

2) Every BBQ restaurant across the nation is now getting nervous. Don't they all have "Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket."

3) Of course KCBS is the only organization that can license judging by "Taste, Texture and Appearance." If you want to have any type of food competition, your judges may not see, feel or taste the food. I just set up a competition where the only judging criteria is Smell, and that is now my I.P., so if you want a competition, you better hurry while sound is still avaialble!

4) Sorry, but using random selection the odds of coming up with the same order are 24 to 1. Very doable. Give me a combination and order that is at least a million to 1 and we can start talking about it.

5) I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that KCBS didn't invent time measuring, so I would love to see the court testimony on this one.

6) There may be something to "Kansas City Style." I can honestly say that I have never heard a MLB team say that they were playing a "Kansas City Style" of Basbeball. Maybe because it's protected? [For entertainmnet value only. No offense is intended towards Kansas City Royals fans. They're off to a decent start this season and I wish them the best.]

7) There may be something legitimate to a claim about their weighting system. Unless of course they took it from somewhere else.

8 ) A scoring system of 1 to 9? Yeah, like that's never done before!
__________________
GRIM REAPER SMOKERS - "BBQ To Die For"
"Founders Club" Operation BBQ Relief
Weber Smokey Mountain x 2
Weber Genesis Silver x 2
Weber One Touch Gold
Weber Performer x 2
Weber Smokey Joe
Bottle of Absolut
Bottle of Beer
Everything Ripken, "Cards and Que. One tastes of cardboard, the other sweet blue." ©
timzcardz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 03:49 PM   #5
Plowboy
somebody shut me the fark up.
 
Plowboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-09-06
Location: Blue Springs, MO
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Adding to Eric's list...

9) The "definitions" associated with the 1-9 scoring system
10) The actual text of the Rules PDF (It has a Copyright notice on the document)
11) Rules around valid/invalid cuts
12) Garnish rules


I think #7, #8, #9, and #10 could be defended as KCBS IP. Maybe #11. I'm no lawyer, nor do I get a check from a law firm... but I wish I did.
__________________
Pork Pullin Plowboys (and Smoke on Wheels)
Save a hog, ride a plowboy!
www.plowboysbbq.com

Todd Johns (me); Blue Springs, MO
Randy Hinck (PigBoy); Concordia, MO
Andy Groneman (Hodedo); KC, KS (Cameo Appearances)

FEC-500SS; FEC-100 (Right handed); FEC-100 (Left handed); Country Smoker Tailgater; Big Green Egg (2-large, small, mini); Cookshack Pellet Fired Charbroiler
Plowboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 04:06 PM   #6
drbbq
is One Chatty Farker

 
drbbq's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-26-04
Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

You guys really think this is a good place to get the answers to these questions? This just seems like a flogging. (Not that I don't enjoy a good flogging)
__________________
Ray Lampe
Dr. BBQ
The Honey Badger of BBQ. I just don't give a sh!t.
drbbq is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 05:32 PM   #7
motoeric
Babbling Farker
 
motoeric's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-07-06
Location: huntington, ny
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
You guys really think this is a good place to get the answers to these questions? This just seems like a flogging. (Not that I don't enjoy a good flogging)
Where would you suggest we go to get these questions answered?

Eric
__________________
Smoke Signals
Current Issue

A BBQ Brethren Publication
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Exodus 12:9
motoeric is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 05:42 PM   #8
drbbq
is One Chatty Farker

 
drbbq's Avatar
 
Join Date: 10-26-04
Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Well as soon as I say KCBS I'll get hammered so I'm not going to say that.
They're the only ones who could answer at this point but I'd say there's zero chance that they'll answer here.

So I'll suggest that anyone with a dog in the fight gets a lawyer and has him ask KCBS.
__________________
Ray Lampe
Dr. BBQ
The Honey Badger of BBQ. I just don't give a sh!t.
drbbq is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 05:48 PM   #9
CajunSmoker
is Blowin Smoke!
 
CajunSmoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-06-07
Location: Rolling down the river between St Louis and New Orleans
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
Well as soon as I say KCBS I'll get hammered so I'm not going to say that.
They're the only ones who could answer at this point but I'd say there's zero chance that they'll answer here.

So I'll suggest that anyone with a dog in the fight gets a lawyer and has him ask KCBS.

Watch out Ray, I think that phrase is the property of Michael Vick now and he already has his share of lawyers
__________________
Rodger

How y'all are? I'm glad you got to see me I guarontee Justin Wilson 4/24/1914 - 09/05/2001
CAJUN QUE KREWE Proud ARKLAFO
KCBS member & CBJ#24398
Twin CoonAss Ugly Drum Smokers
Brinkman Smoke King Deluxe
Brinkman Gourmet ECB with super chicken mods
Weber OTS kettle
CajunSmoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-28-2009, 05:58 PM   #10
timzcardz
Babbling Farker

 
timzcardz's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-22-05
Location: Long Island, NY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Eric,

I don't believe that they would ever disclaim ownership of intellectual rights to anything if asked, for to do so would forever preclude them, or any rights owner, from ever claiming intellectual rights over the property.

The standard is to claim the right and demand discontinuance of the alleged infringing use, and then follow through with the legal system filing a law suit if the alleged infringing use persists.

As the accused of the infringing use, one would have the option to cease the alleged infringing use or fight it in court.

Just because one alleges infringement doesn't make it so. But to acknowledge that any single particulr thing was not infringing would be foolhardy at best.

In short, I don't believe that you or anyone else will get answers to those questions unless something finally ends up in court and a judge decides. That is not likely though, for the potential for loss is a big risk for the property rights owner who will most likely prevail through intimidation or reach a very specific settlement without the court making a precedent setting decision.
__________________
GRIM REAPER SMOKERS - "BBQ To Die For"
"Founders Club" Operation BBQ Relief
Weber Smokey Mountain x 2
Weber Genesis Silver x 2
Weber One Touch Gold
Weber Performer x 2
Weber Smokey Joe
Bottle of Absolut
Bottle of Beer
Everything Ripken, "Cards and Que. One tastes of cardboard, the other sweet blue." ©
timzcardz is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-30-2009, 05:58 PM   #11
motoeric
Babbling Farker
 
motoeric's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-07-06
Location: huntington, ny
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

As a heads up:

I sent the questions found here to Merl a few days ago. I haven't heard back yet. I'll let people know when I hear from him. I'll also let people know if I don't hear anything back.

Eric
__________________
Smoke Signals
Current Issue

A BBQ Brethren Publication
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Exodus 12:9
motoeric is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-30-2009, 07:06 PM   #12
barbefunkoramaque
Babbling Farker
 
Join Date: 11-11-07
Location: Gone
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

This is an intelligent response. I was thinking along the lines of :

KCBS, what a bunch of Farking Morons with this crap...

but alas, I have changed over to a new leaf and have decided not to comment at all. Especially on number 2, 3, 5 and 8. In fact I laugh so hard at 2 AND 5 i have to reach for my inhaler.

So no, you won't here me voicing my opinion as an EX KCBS member from 1996... noooooooo way.

I will say that I think they should own the Kansas City Style... someone has to claim responsibility.



Quote:
Originally Posted by timzcardz View Post
1) Olympics better look out! Don't they use 6 judges in Gymnastics?

2) Every BBQ restaurant across the nation is now getting nervous. Don't they all have "Categories of Chicken, Ribs, Pork and Brisket."

3) Of course KCBS is the only organization that can license judging by "Taste, Texture and Appearance." If you want to have any type of food competition, your judges may not see, feel or taste the food. I just set up a competition where the only judging criteria is Smell, and that is now my I.P., so if you want a competition, you better hurry while sound is still avaialble!

4) Sorry, but using random selection the odds of coming up with the same order are 24 to 1. Very doable. Give me a combination and order that is at least a million to 1 and we can start talking about it.

5) I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that KCBS didn't invent time measuring, so I would love to see the court testimony on this one.

6) There may be something to "Kansas City Style." I can honestly say that I have never heard a MLB team say that they were playing a "Kansas City Style" of Basbeball. Maybe because it's protected? [For entertainmnet value only. No offense is intended towards Kansas City Royals fans. They're off to a decent start this season and I wish them the best.]

7) There may be something legitimate to a claim about their weighting system. Unless of course they took it from somewhere else.

8 ) A scoring system of 1 to 9? Yeah, like that's never done before!
__________________
Popdaddy is Dead - 1933-2011 - Pitmaster T is a free agent
barbefunkoramaque is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 04-30-2009, 11:09 PM   #13
pigmaker23
is One Chatty Farker
 
pigmaker23's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-17-06
Location: Albany, NY
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

your not far off the mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq View Post
Well as soon as I say KCBS I'll get hammered so I'm not going to say that.
They're the only ones who could answer at this point but I'd say there's zero chance that they'll answer here.

So I'll suggest that anyone with a dog in the fight gets a lawyer and has him ask KCBS.
__________________
Eric Johnson / "The Sultan of Smoke"
Mr. Bobo's Traveling BBQ Allstars !
2009 Jack Daniels World BBQ BrisketChampion
_______________________________________
Backwoods Fatboy (2) & a Chubby
Jedmaster " BabyJed" Ring of Fire
OK Joe 84" Offset
Meadowcreek PR -72 Trailer
pigmaker23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-01-2009, 02:29 PM   #14
Merl
Full Fledged Farker
 
Merl's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-13-06
Location: Tulsa, Ok
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoeric View Post
As a heads up:

I sent the questions found here to Merl a few days ago. I haven't heard back yet. I'll let people know when I hear from him. I'll also let people know if I don't hear anything back.

Eric
Eric,
I am surprised with this. You have been provided more information than most, (or so I have been told.) Yet you want to bait this issue. You well know as was stated before, I cannot disclaim any IP on behalf of KCBS.

You also know that we would be sued for discussing a personnel matter.

So I guess you got me. I will not be responding to your question at this time.

Merl
Merl is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 05-01-2009, 06:02 PM   #15
motoeric
Babbling Farker
 
motoeric's Avatar
 
Join Date: 08-07-06
Location: huntington, ny
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merl View Post
Eric,
I am surprised with this. You have been provided more information than most, (or so I have been told.) Yet you want to bait this issue. You well know as was stated before, I cannot disclaim any IP on behalf of KCBS.

You also know that we would be sued for discussing a personnel matter.


So I guess you got me. I will not be responding to your question at this time.

Merl
Uhhhhhh, what are you talking about? I haven't asked for any information about personal matters or personnel issues.

The only area that I was asking about were the issues regarding the IP's. I have absolutely NO information about this from any source, regardless of what you have been told.

I understand your inability to give a categorical list of the things that are covered (as others have brought up that any slip-up not mentioning something that you should have would open up a can of worms later), but I was hopeful that you could say 'yes' or 'no' to the direct questions asked.

I'm not trying to 'bait' any issue and I sort of resent the claim that I am. I believe that the questions asked are eminently reasonable for any event organizer that wishes to avoid conflicts with the KCBS and not only do I believe that this is the right place to post those questions, I was directed here by a moderator.

Eric
__________________
Smoke Signals
Current Issue

A BBQ Brethren Publication
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Exodus 12:9

Last edited by motoeric; 05-01-2009 at 11:06 PM..
motoeric is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
RD and KCBS early mornin' smokin' Q-talk 5 03-19-2010 05:22 PM
Why even have kcbs/ what can we do? moocow Competition BBQ 41 02-11-2010 12:51 PM
KCBS & KCBS Website HBMTN For the Board 34 01-14-2010 12:13 PM
KCBS at it again Roo-B-Q'N Competition BBQ 210 02-13-2008 09:56 AM
KCBS - How are we doing ? Merl Competition BBQ 58 05-06-2007 10:16 PM

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.