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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 09-24-2008, 10:59 AM   #1
PatioDaddio
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Default KCBS Score Sheet Proposals

All,

I am thinking about making two proposals to improve the KCBS score sheets, and I want to get your feedback first.

See the document below. It's pretty self-explanatory, but the idea is to include information that will make it easier to see where we stack up.

Proposal

I appreciate your thoughts and suggestions.

Thanks,
John
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Unread 09-24-2008, 11:18 AM   #2
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I'd like to see the judges table number on each category so when you look at the score sheet and you see your ribs went to table 4 against Lotta bull and Johny Trigg you know how you stacked up against them. Not only that you can see if a particular table of judges is handing out lower scores then the rest of the judges tables.
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Unread 09-24-2008, 11:31 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
I'd like to see the judges table number on each category so when you look at the score sheet and you see your ribs went to table 4 against Lotta bull and Johny Trigg you know how you stacked up against them. Not only that you can see if a particular table of judges is handing out lower scores then the rest of the judges tables.
I'd like to see that too. It would help with determining whether I hit a tough table or just plain sucked that day. :)
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Unread 09-24-2008, 11:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
I'd like to see the judges table number on each category so when you look at the score sheet and you see your ribs went to table 4 against Lotta bull and Johny Trigg you know how you stacked up against them. Not only that you can see if a particular table of judges is handing out lower scores then the rest of the judges tables.
That would be nice, but I'm trying to keep this proposal in the realm of possibility.

John
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Unread 09-24-2008, 01:12 PM   #5
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So are you just wanting the score sheets combined? We already get the rank for each category.

On a side note, I don't think the proposal is very practical because as I understand it, the scoring software doesn't allow for customization. If that's true, it would have to be recoded. Maybe it could be added to a wish list for future versions though.
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Unread 09-24-2008, 02:23 PM   #6
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Not really combined, just more information on the two sheets to help see the big picture at a glance. As it is now, I have to flip through six pages to see the whole picture.

John
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Unread 09-24-2008, 02:33 PM   #7
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I'd rather see how I did against the others at my table. Like YankeeBBQ said.
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Unread 09-24-2008, 02:41 PM   #8
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Ditto Steve, Chris, and Scottie here.
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Unread 09-24-2008, 02:57 PM   #9
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OK, check it now. I have kept the rank and added the table number.

John
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Unread 09-24-2008, 03:02 PM   #10
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You'd also want to see Table number on the 'Chicken' page. So you'd see... oh, 3 of the top 5 all came from table #6
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Unread 09-24-2008, 05:35 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
I'd like to see the judges table number on each category so when you look at the score sheet and you see your ribs went to table 4 against Lotta bull and Johny Trigg you know how you stacked up against them.
I don't know what this would really tell you except that those teams were at the same table. Judging is not supposed to be comparative, each entry is scored on it's own merit. Your ribs should rank the same at that table regardless of whether Mike and Johnny are at the table with you or 5 brand new teams.

So would you change anything you did based on knowing that information? Or would it just be a curiousity thing?

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Not only that you can see if a particular table of judges is handing out lower scores then the rest of the judges tables.
I don't know how you could determine this. Tracking a single judge handing out low scores is one thing, tracking an entire table though? What would you compare it to? The other judges tables who might be getting better entries? What about the tables giving out higher than deserved scores? I see this as being as much of a disservice to a team as giving out lower than deserved scores.
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Unread 09-24-2008, 05:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbinms33 View Post
I don't know what this would really tell you except that those teams were at the same table. Judging is not supposed to be comparative, each entry is scored on it's own merit. Your ribs should rank the same at that table regardless of whether Mike and Johnny are at the table with you or 5 brand new teams.

So would you change anything you did based on knowing that information? Or would it just be a curiousity thing?



I don't know how you could determine this. Tracking a single judge handing out low scores is one thing, tracking an entire table though? What would you compare it to? The other judges tables who might be getting better entries? What about the tables giving out higher than deserved scores? I see this as being as much of a disservice to a team as giving out lower than deserved scores.
There are bad tables. What Yankeebbq is talking about is a way to indentify if his entry was off or the competition was stiff, or he hit a bad table that scored everything low.

For example: If I look at my scores and see that I'm at the same table as team(s) x and y, and we are usually competitive..and we all tank I can assume it had something to do with the table. But, if I'm at the same table with those same teams, and they do well and I tank I'm more inclined to believe that it was me.

The idea isn't to focus on judges, but to remove some of the guesswork involved in interpreting scores to create or maintain a quality entry.

Did I get the general idea right, YankeeBBQ?
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Unread 09-24-2008, 06:01 PM   #13
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Yes for me. Gives me a better feel for my product for that day.
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Unread 09-24-2008, 06:27 PM   #14
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This brings up a topic that I had put a lot of though into a few years ago, however the idea died when repeated attempts to offer it to KCBS went unanswered. Apparently they were already working on their software back in 2007...not sure if they ever completed it. The additional feedback that I had in the proposal predated the current idea that they were using at a contest that I attended last summer to allow the judges to leave comments on the entries. Perhaps they liked the idea.

The "mostly functional" mockup that I did was in MS Access, however the proposal to KCBS was to be written in .NET, a mySQL backend database, with a web server to house all the data with a user friendly search screen so you could look back on your scores, and anyone elses, for years to come. It would make the team of the year a real time thing to follow during the season on the KCBS website. Basically, once the data is in a database, running reports to compare judges at your table against anyone else at the same table...or even across contests couldn't be simplier (judges names removed of course to keep it fair to the judges).

Anyway, there wasn't a lot of interest in it at the time, so I don't image much has changed since then. I thought it sounded good for the competitor perspective to be able to give them more insight into seeing their scores in ways that they hadn't been able to in the past.

Here is a link if anyone wants to see what I was thinking. http://bbqonthefarm.com/BBQContestScoringSoftware.pdf


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Unread 09-24-2008, 07:28 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ View Post
I'd like to see the judges table number on each category so when you look at the score sheet and you see your ribs went to table 4 against Lotta bull and Johny Trigg you know how you stacked up against them. Not only that you can see if a particular table of judges is handing out lower scores then the rest of the judges tables.
The FBA has that and all it seems to do is piss people off. We all know there are low scoring tables (and high) but IMO some things are best left in the dark.
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