Turn in Box "marking"

[Quiggs]

Newbie (curious) question guys and gals..., I have done two comps and searched this site for the last three days hoping to find the answer to my question on presentation and the evils of accidental or intentional marking.

If one drop of sauce touches the lid- DQ, if the grass sticks out - DQ, rosettes -DQ.......So, why do I see many, many pics of varied presentations with brisket slices with burnt ends at the top, and bottom and side or non at all. Same with all meats placed to the center, more to the right, ribs in one row or two or split etc. etc. 1/2 lettuce 1/2 parsley, all parsley, all lettuce...I don't get it, I could place the meat basically anyway I want it and the grass anyway I want it.... Does that not "mark" my box?? Is the rule in place so a friendly judge that knows me and my "box method" does not score me higher or ???

Please if this has been gone over I apologize, could not find it..

[Bigmista]

As far as garnish goes, as long as you use the correct greens (green leaf lettuce, curly or flat leaf parsley or cilantro, you can put it in the box any way you want to as long as it doesn't spell out a name or something like that. As for meat, you could put you brisket slices in a circle or chop it all up (can't do this with rib meat though) or have your slices criss-cross they just can't be arranged in a way that identifies them as yours (i.e. arranged to form a "Q").

I could be wrong here but I think I'm pretty close. There are some judges here that will chime in.

All that being said, most people that compete want to win fair and square. Bragging rights are big part of the competition and if you had to cheat to win, did you really win?

[Rookie'48]

Even if you had that one judge in your pocket, he is only one score out of six. As a bonus (at least in KCBS) your boxes will not hit the same table twice. Chicky goes to table "A"; table "A" will not be given any other entries with your box #. If you could "get to" two or three judges at each table you might have a shot at cheating.

But is that really a win? And how are your odds of getting publicly exposed (very high, I would hope) ?

[Ford]

Originally Posted by Quiggs

If one drop of sauce touches the lid- DQ, if the grass sticks out - DQ,

Both these statements are false. At one time they were true but it's been changed. If you close the box and get sauce off the meat onto the lid it is not a DQ and judges should not score down for sauce on the lid. However if you had a nice glaze on your chicken and then it gets all smudged with the lid hitting it that does impact your appearance score as that piece of chicken is now a mess.

Tip - take time after you close the box to carefully open it and see what has happened. It can explain your scores sometimes when you thought you had a perfect box. It's not always rogue judges that cause poor scores.

[Quiggs]

My question was not to find out how to cheat, but found it wierd that they (KCBS) are so picky about the items I listed, yet to me the placement of the meat in a certain pattern could do the same thing...and thankd Ford for the sause clarification. I did get some on top but caught it and cleaned it before turn in.

[Sledneck]

Originally Posted by Ford

Both these statements are false. At one time they were true but it's been changed. If you close the box and get sauce off the meat onto the lid it is not a DQ and judges should not score down for sauce on the lid. However if you had a nice glaze on your chicken and then it gets all smudged with the lid hitting it that does impact your appearance score as that piece of chicken is now a mess.

Tip - take time after you close the box to carefully open it and see what has happened. It can explain your scores sometimes when you thought you had a perfect box. It's not always rogue judges that cause poor scores.

Great point!

[YankeeBBQ]

I once heard of a team getting DQ'd for putting 8 small piles of pork in their box. They were told if they only put six it would have been legal but the rep thought putting 8 was marking the box. It was the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. I hope that Rep was set straight by the KCBS but who knows ?

[chad]

Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ

I once heard of a team getting DQ'd for putting 8 small piles of pork in their box. They were told if they only put six it would have been legal but the rep thought putting 8 was marking the box. It was the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. I hope that Rep was set straight by the KCBS but who knows ?

Sounds like an urban legend.

FBA requires 8 portions and most FBA teams that compete in KCBS events load up the boxes with 8 portions anyway. Any leftovers feed the table captains, voluteers, or go to the grazing table. Many, many events we have been encouraged to load up the boxes to feed the volunteers.

[Divemaster]

In the CBJ class I took we were told that you could put as much food in the box as you wanted... I stick with 8 servings just to be on the safe side (such as a brisket slice that is not cut all the way through).

I also asked about using small lettuce leafs to create bowls for my PP... Was told that it would be border line marking and to make up a box, take a picture and send it to KCBS for a ruling before I tried it at a comp... If they approved the box, I was also told to take the letter with me to pre-empt any DQ's....

[Wizards of 'Que]

DQ once because the rep thought the bark peices made a starfih design in the pulled pork.

[The Giggler]

Originally Posted by YankeeBBQ

I once heard of a team getting DQ'd for putting 8 small piles of pork in their box. They were told if they only put six it would have been legal but the rep thought putting 8 was marking the box. It was the dumbest thing I ever heard in my life. I hope that Rep was set straight by the KCBS but who knows ?

Something similar happened to us at Lowell in 2005. The Rep came over to us, and explained that the pork entry appeared to be formed.... They allowed it, but you cannot convince me that after there was such a fuss by the judges, table captain, and contest Rep, that it received an "honest" evaluation.

At every KCBS contest up to Lowell 2005, we used the same method for our pork entry. Since that day, we have not turned in a pork entry in sepearte piles fearing a DQ for forming or marking.

[The_Kapn]

We do not get "creative" on our presentations.
Every time we have tried, we got burned with low scores.

The risk is just not worth it, Not only a potential DQ, but just "turning off" the judges if they do not like it.

I had the honor of cooking with a "legend" of BBQ a couple of years ago. He told me that he "leaves the experimenting to others", and he won a lot of events.

Our effort goes to cooking the best product we can and then presenting it in the most professional manner we are capable of.

For example--even slices that have smooth cuts. Slices come from the same piece of meat and are not randomly selected. Any "chunks" are consistent in size and neatly arranged. Poultry parts are similar in size and neatly arranged.
Sauce, au-juis, or sprays are used to help keep the meat moist and tempting.

Just FWIW.

TIM

[Big George's BBQ]

Nice neat and clean, and with enough food for the table captain too

[LindaM]

Steve,

I would love to know who that rep is myself, Never heard of it and they need some serious training.