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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Old 05-18-2008, 12:06 PM   #1
HeSmellsLikeSmoke
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Default Ultra-high Heat Brisket ala Texas Old School?

Rereading "Legends of Texas Barbecue" I am struck by a couple of passages where we are told that some of the best Texas BBQ is smoked at 600 degrees.
Robb Walsh then goes on to say that Kreuz's pits in Lockhart have been measured at that temperature. The implication is that such high temperatures are not practical for home/backyard smokers.

Does anyone know how they cook such exceptional barbecue at such a high temperature? It sure does challenge the present day conventional wisdom of low and slow.

It seems to me that the Ceramic Smokers come very close to producing the same cooking environment as the big brick smokers that Krutz uses. I have the urge to give it a try and wonder if anyone has explored this or tried it?
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:21 PM   #2
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Hope your at the store now buying a brisket and batteries for the camera!
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:26 PM   #3
HeSmellsLikeSmoke
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I'm pit rich and brisket poor right now.

Might be able to afford a chuckie. Bought rechargeable batteries before I started buying smokers -- so, got batteries at least.
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:29 PM   #4
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Have you seen Kick Ass bbq website on high temp cooking?
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Old 05-18-2008, 12:35 PM   #5
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Yes I have seen it. I like his site and attitude - but haven't tried to do it yet.

What I am considering here is a much higher temperature so there might be different issues and methods -- but perhaps not?
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:20 PM   #6
bigmo
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Talking my quick cook brisket

About two weeks ago I tried a quick cook brisket using Kickass's directions (here).

7 pound brisket, 350 to 425 (avg 375) cooker temp on my gECB (half cowboy lump/half royal oak briquets, 3 hickory chunks, minion method, empty water pan, refuel x1). She hit 195 internal quick--3 hours. I could not believe she cooked that quick so I let the fire die down, added water to the pan for cooker temps of 200-220 and kept her on for 2 more hours to an internal temp of 208.

I sliced half and shredded half. She turned out dry but still tasty. Next time I'll trust the thermometer. I will definitly try this again.

I have not posted any pics because I felt it was not worthy but since the subject has been brought up here she is...

[Edit- I know that HeSmellsLikeSmoke was asking about "Ultra-High Heat Brisket" but at least I got pics ]
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_4812 (Large).jpg (61.5 KB, 1067 views)
File Type: jpg 100_4814 (Large).jpg (101.2 KB, 1062 views)
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Last edited by bigmo; 05-18-2008 at 01:45 PM.. Reason: ...
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:41 PM   #7
HeSmellsLikeSmoke
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Thanks for posting this BigMo.

Did you cook it in an pan as he does? Did you think it tasted smoked enough? I have wondered if high temperatures would quickly sear the outside and stop the smoke from penetrating?

Many of the old Texas joints just use salt and pepper for rub -- which should not burn as much as a rub with sugar in it. What rub did you use?

I will be very interested in your next high temp cook when you trust that thermometer.
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:52 PM   #8
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I trimmed down a packer to a 8" wide brisket flat this week. I marinaded it in Moore's marinade overnight then rubbed it with Spicewine's heffer dust. I put it in the UDS at 350* for 2 hours. It hit 165 in 2 hours. I put it in a pan with some liquid (about a cup) and kept the heat up until it hit 200* internal which took about another 1.5 hours. I pulled it and put it in the cooler for about an hour and a half. Sliced it on the slicer and it was like Butta Nice smoke flavor, good bark.

However, no pics, so it didn't happen
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Old 05-18-2008, 01:56 PM   #9
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I started reading "Legends of Texas BBQ" yesterday, and am almost through with it. Really a great read!
I fast cooked a couple of butts last spring, because I really didn't have time to go low and slow. It came out good, but not good enough for me to cook it that way if I had the time to do it slow. Brian
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:02 PM   #10
bigmo
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HeSmellsLikeSmoke,
No pan but I did foil at 160.
No smoke ring worth talkin about but great bark.
Smoke flavor was light but noticeable.
My rub was 1 measure salt - 1 measure pepper - half measure chili powder - 2 tablespoons sugar,
all over a slather of half frenchs yellow mustard and cattlemans original.
I'll say again - She turned out dry but still tasty. Next time I'll trust the thermometer. I will definitly try this again.
Thanks
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:30 PM   #11
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I believe Texas BBQ places like Kreuz and Cooper's use the pit bbq method, somewhat like a UDS. Or to be more accurate, a UDS is more like real pit bbq.
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Old 05-18-2008, 02:36 PM   #12
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The ones shown in the book look like waist high brick pits with a full, counter weighted steel lid. But it does look to be raised direct like the UDS concept.

I seem to remember the ones at Cooper's looking similar.

The brick must give a lot of radiation like the ceramic ones, which is what got me to thinking.
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Old 05-18-2008, 07:06 PM   #13
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I did a tour a few years back and hit Kruez Market before they moved. I asked the guy cooking about taking 10+ hours to cook brisket and he just smiled. Said they cook them much faster and it was hard to argue with the results.

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Old 05-18-2008, 07:28 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bryant View Post
I did a tour a few years back and hit Kruez Market before they moved. I asked the guy cooking about taking 10+ hours to cook brisket and he just smiled. Said they cook them much faster and it was hard to argue with the results.
Yeah - I just got off the phone with my brother. He's cooking a brisket on the 22.5" weber grill indirect. He said 'I'm having some trouble telling when it's done since it's cooking a little faster on the weber'.

I told him that as long as it makes it to 190F internal that it would be good.

I think with brisket, it's one of those TxS=D formulas. The values are inter-related but you can adjust any one of the three parameters and wind up at the same place. Time X Speed = Distance OR Volts / Ohms = Amps

Then you can think that Distance / Speed = Time OR Amps X Volts = Ohms

Wait - I think it's called Ohms Law.

So - Time X Temp = 190F (Done)

Bottom line is, no matter what you do, even Turbo brisket, as long as you achieve 190F internal, you're good.

Hope this helps. My brothers - please let me know if I'm way off base on this. (or if I'm sounding like bro. billy)
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Old 05-18-2008, 07:35 PM   #15
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I seen a special where someone did a whole strip loin like that but never a brisket.

Jeff
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