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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 01-04-2018, 09:21 AM   #1
DRMSMKER
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Default Using Pans increase cook time?

Would putting my butt in a pan (elevated by a grate) increase the cook time in my UDS? If so would removing my diffuser off set this? I'm only asking b/c in my UDS with a diffuser (pizza pan with holes in it), i feel like the pan would act as a second diffuser possibly.
Does this make sense or will it not matter either way?
Also, is it better to place a diffuser right over the coal basket for more even temps on my lower cooking grate and center and outer edge of all my grates? Right now i just put it in the middle of my lower grate which is about 6-8 inches about my basket.(i think)
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:05 AM   #2
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Meathead has done some research, with this result for turkey cooked in a pan.

https://amazingribs.com/tested-recip...-recipe-easily
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:22 AM   #3
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so if using a pan i would need to raise the butt well above the lips of the pan so the bottom will cook at the same temp as the top or does this only apply if there is water in the pan?
If it does needed to be elevated, would it make more sense to just put my butt on the top grate and put he pan under it where my diffuser usually is but try to elevate it off the bottom grate so the drippings don't char?
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:48 AM   #4
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To protect your drippings I think you should keep your pizza pan in place. To maximimze that air flow raise that butt up. lol
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:50 AM   #5
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Meatheads research quoted above is based on a pan of water. Though NOT an expert I switched to using pans with racks for all my cooks (even in my UDS). I still use the diffuser and have not noticed any descernible time difference from cooking without pans. Saves lots of clean up.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:14 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbass300 View Post
Meatheads research quoted above is based on a pan of water. Though NOT an expert I switched to using pans with racks for all my cooks (even in my UDS). I still use the diffuser and have not noticed any descernible time difference from cooking without pans. Saves lots of clean up.
From the link.
"Prof. Greg Blonder, is a physicist, entrepreneur, former Chief Technical Advisor at the legendary Bell Labs, food lover, and the AmazingRibs.com science advisor and mythbuster. He measured the temps at different levels above the liquid in a 3" tall pan of water.
Even though the oven was 325°F, the liquid never reached boiling temp in the time it took to cook a turkey. That's because air is a lousy conductor of heat. You can put your hand in a 325°F oven, but don't put it in 325°F oil. Because the evaporation of water from the surface cools the liquid in the same way sweat cools us on a hot day, the temp of the gravy may never get above 175°F.
As you can see from the illustration, if the bird is below the lip of the pan and about 2" above the gravy, the bottom of the bird is in 240°F high humidity air, 85°F cooler than the top of the bird which is chugging away nicely in dry heat. That's why turkey backs are so often as flabby as an elephant's.
Even if you place the bird on a grate on the lip of the pan, the bottom will still be much cooler than the top and will almost certainly be undercooked. He did experiments with a shallow pan and got similar results.
In order to heat the bottom of the bird properly, if you are using a 3" pan with liquid as I recommend, you need to get the meat 3" above the pan for the air temp to be 325°F all around."
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:18 AM   #7
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Yes "..Above the liquid in a 3" tall pan of water."

The question was will using a pan change cooking time. I'd say yes...If you fill it with water.

I don't use any water in my pans
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigbass300 View Post
Yes "..Above the liquid in a 3" tall pan of water."

The question was will using a pan change cooking time. I'd say yes...If you fill it with water.

I don't use any water in my pans
Blue arrows, meat exposed to lower temp, red arrows, meat exposed to higher temps. Higher temps, faster cooking.
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Old 01-04-2018, 12:50 PM   #9
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I don't think the question was in regards to cooking with or without a pan of water.

I was taught you try it both ways for yourself and see if there is a difference, easy peasy!
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:01 PM   #10
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In response to one of your other questions, I think the diffuser is better placed as close above the firebox as possible, which should serve to better even out the heat above it, both side-to-side and up-and-down. Just my pov.

I believe the illustration above demonstrates you're best placed to have the diffuser at one level, the pan (with or without water) at the next level, and the butt above that. As long as you position the pan properly, it should catch all the drippings. And depending on what temp you're runnin, it should do so without charring your drippings because you've got the diffuser beneath it.

Good luck!
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Old 01-04-2018, 02:27 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OklaDustDevil View Post
In response to one of your other questions, I think the diffuser is better placed as close above the firebox as possible, which should serve to better even out the heat above it, both side-to-side and up-and-down. Just my pov.

I believe the illustration above demonstrates you're best placed to have the diffuser at one level, the pan (with or without water) at the next level, and the butt above that. As long as you position the pan properly, it should catch all the drippings. And depending on what temp you're runnin, it should do so without charring your drippings because you've got the diffuser beneath it.

Good luck!
I think this is going to be my plan of attack next cook. Move my diffuser from lower rack to right over basket, then move pan to lower rack to catch drippings, and then butt on top grate. No use of water.
Thanks all for the insight.
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:40 PM   #12
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If you use a drip pan. No water, but use aluminum foil set so the foil can not touch the bottom of the pan. Your drippings will not burn.
Since you will using a drip pan. You do NOT need a diffuser. The drip pan takes care of that.
Below the 4 butts is a drip pan on a 3rd grate above the coal basket.

Drip pan under a turkey.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMSMKER View Post
I think this is going to be my plan of attack next cook. Move my diffuser from lower rack to right over basket, then move pan to lower rack to catch drippings, and then butt on top grate. No use of water.
Thanks all for the insight.
Why no water?

I never use water with my horiz offset, because the meat is being cooked purely by smoke moving horizontally from the firebox, not from the firebox heat. But when I use my vertical wood-burner I always use a water pan because the heat is directly below the meat. I feel like the water 1- smooths the temp fluctuations, and 2- adds some steam/moisture into the environment so the meat doesn't dry out as much from all the heat.

And I'm using sticks, which typically have 30-40% water that comes out thru the smoke. With charcoal there is no water, so I would tend to think a water pan might be even more useful.

I'm not sayin, I'm just askin -- haven't used one of these cookers before so I'm interested in learnin, why no water pans?
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Old 01-05-2018, 04:11 AM   #14
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IMHO if you want to use water go ahead, but you do not need water when using a drip pan where the heat sorce is below the food. If you are catching all the dripping goodness from the meat. The drip pan acts as a deflector, and the dripping/boiling juices will add any required moisture as steam like water. You are just heating extra water for no reason. Example: here is the drippings from one turkey. Drippings have never boiled away/dry in any cook that I have done.
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Old 01-05-2018, 08:23 AM   #15
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I've never used water before. Not opposed to it, just never felt i needed it. Most cooks end up with condensation on the lid of the drum anyways so I figured there has gotta be some moisture in there and never had a dry food problem.
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