MMMM.. BRISKET..
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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, equipment and outdoor cookin' . ** Other cooking techniques are welcomed for when your cookin' in the kitchen. Post your hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures, but stay on topic and watch for that hijacking.


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Old 02-06-2018, 10:46 AM   #31
16Adams
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Old 02-06-2018, 10:56 AM   #32
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@16adams

If you think abt it, rate of evaporation is related to temperature. Sooooo a lower temp should lose less moisture assuming the collagen renders sufficiently at those low temps.

With a stick burner cooking low and slow for 18-24 hours represents a lot of labor.

With some of the other methods it's set it and forget it so that's why I'm going to try it and see how it comes out
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:03 AM   #33
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Thanks, my deletion was due to my response April 2017. Same response. Thought it sounded familiar. Didn’t figure it needed to be said twice. Smoke on Brethren:-))
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Old 02-06-2018, 11:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke ninja View Post
I finish that low with good results. I wouldn't start that low, its more a function of timing. I start low to get smoke then raise temps up to render and sizzle some fat and then drop low for finish. If thats overnight its around 200. At those temps things dont move much
Im still learning this but my last one was done at 180. Probed tender and cut like butter after rest. If anything a few thinner parts of the flat were overdone.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:09 PM   #35
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Im still learning this but my last one was done at 180. Probed tender and cut like butter after rest. If anything a few thinner parts of the flat were overdone.
180??? you must have been cooking really low. i have no idea what temp my briskets were done when i was cooking at 225. i switched to hot and fast (well 275 seemed hot 10 years ago) and never checked temps then either. it wasn't until i met you farkers that i bought an instant read thermometer.
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Old 02-06-2018, 01:13 PM   #36
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.............................. it wasn't until i met you farkers that i bought an instant read thermometer.
Your welcome with the pork chop grilling.
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Old 02-09-2018, 11:40 PM   #37
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test is under way. I am practicing with a pork butt first, just in case it doesnt turn out well.

its been cooking for 6 hours at 180°. pork came out of the freezer on monday and was still almost frozen in the middle. stayed at 29° for three solid hours before starting to climb.

Im a little concerned that it might not pass the 40-140 in 4 hours test.

will keep thread updated with results.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:56 PM   #38
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test is under way. I am practicing with a pork butt first, just in case it doesnt turn out well.

its been cooking for 6 hours at 180°. pork came out of the freezer on monday and was still almost frozen in the middle. stayed at 29° for three solid hours before starting to climb.

Im a little concerned that it might not pass the 40-140 in 4 hours test.

will keep thread updated with results.

40 - 140 in 4 really doesn't apply to intact pieces of meat like butts and brisket as the bacteria in question reside on the surface.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:59 PM   #39
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40 - 140 in 4 really doesn't apply to intact pieces of meat like butts and brisket as the bacteria in question reside on the surface.
great to hear as it took 6 hours to make that journey.

its been cooking 23 hours now and internal temp is only 153 but its almost probe tender. I think I'll keep it on another 3 or so hours.
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:13 PM   #40
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Not exactly the same but did a flat at 165 for 24 hrs sous vide followed by brief sear for color. Was okay but not tender enough. Plan to go 36 hrs next time.
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Old 02-10-2018, 07:44 PM   #41
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I've done something similar, but different. I smoked a brisket at 300 until it hit 160, then foiled and dropped the temp to 180. My thinking was that not much "cooking" takes place at the low temps, so I might as well get it up to temp as fast as possible, then go low and slow.
It took approx. 14 hrs total to probe tender. Unfortunately I didn't record the IT when it was done.
After a 9 hr rest in a cambro, it was slightly overcooked.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:39 AM   #42
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ok, here are the results of my first experiment. total cook time 26 hours 40 minutes.

-Pork Butt started at 9lb 12.3 OZ
-cooked it at 180° grate temp for 22 hours. internal temp of the meat did not even move for the first three hours. I thought my probe was broken.
-I upped the temp to 200 for another 4.5 hours, and pulled the meat at an internal temp of 160° when it probed tender.
-final weight 7lbs 5oz

observations:

1. contrary to popular belief, cooking low doesnt make jerky. it only lost 25% of original weight
2. surprisingly big smoke ring
3. I really liked the color.. I wasnt expecting it to turn black and it didnt
4. based on the color I thought the bark would be soft but it was the crispiest bark ive ever gotten from a pork butt.
5. meat below the crust was very juicy but not as pull apart tender as normal even though it probed tender.
6. aroma was great. it filled the whole house but smoke flavor was very light and clean- my wife who does not like smoke flavor thought it had a nice aroma.
Attached Images
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Old 02-11-2018, 02:46 AM   #43
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No worries about making jerky - the reason jerky comes out the way it does is precisely because it is meant to remove all of the moisture from the meat to prevent bacteria forming, hence the necessity to cut it into thin strips.

I've experimented with very ow temperature oven roasting quite a lot (long before sous-vide was a practical option even for a professional chef), it's an exquisite technique with lots of advantages, but perhaps these advantages are less apparent and outweighed by disadvantages when applied to barbecue. Time and fuel being the two largest, followed by burn temperature of the fuel source which affects the amount and chemical content of the smoke produced.

There is a whole lot of science behind the differences in cooking at such radically different temperatures as, say, 180° vs 325°F. The mantra in BBQ seems to have become that the meat doesn't know what temperature you cooked it at and will get done no matter what - this is true only insofar as the meat will get done, but it does not mean the results will be the same unless other adjustments have been made to the processes to even them out or compensate for the differences.

In other words, if you do everything the same except time in the cooker you will not get the same amount of bark, smoke, colour, texture, tenderness, moisture content, aroma, and as a result of the combination of all of these, the taste. The final internal temperature that produces a 'best' combination of tenderness and juiciness will also be different, which is why experienced hands will always choose to pull according to feel and probe tenderness over according only to temperature.

Experience has taught me to to poo-poo anything until I understand it, and food science is actually insanely complex, so it's understandable people get a near religious defensiveness for the way they found works for them. Anyone who really wants to expand their horizons and gain valuable experience should try these different methods, besides being educational it's really fun and you will learn more than by doing a hundred cooks exactly the way you are used to.

There are many ways to skin a cat, just haven't found a good way to barbecue one.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:24 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by One Drop View Post
No worries about making jerky - the reason jerky comes out the way it does is precisely because it is meant to remove all of the moisture from the meat to prevent bacteria forming, hence the necessity to cut it into thin strips.

I've experimented with very ow temperature oven roasting quite a lot (long before sous-vide was a practical option even for a professional chef), it's an exquisite technique with lots of advantages, but perhaps these advantages are less apparent and outweighed by disadvantages when applied to barbecue. Time and fuel being the two largest, followed by burn temperature of the fuel source which affects the amount and chemical content of the smoke produced.

There is a whole lot of science behind the differences in cooking at such radically different temperatures as, say, 180° vs 325°F. The mantra in BBQ seems to have become that the meat doesn't know what temperature you cooked it at and will get done no matter what - this is true only insofar as the meat will get done, but it does not mean the results will be the same unless other adjustments have been made to the processes to even them out or compensate for the differences.

In other words, if you do everything the same except time in the cooker you will not get the same amount of bark, smoke, colour, texture, tenderness, moisture content, aroma, and as a result of the combination of all of these, the taste. The final internal temperature that produces a 'best' combination of tenderness and juiciness will also be different, which is why experienced hands will always choose to pull according to feel and probe tenderness over according only to temperature.

Experience has taught me to to poo-poo anything until I understand it, and food science is actually insanely complex, so it's understandable people get a near religious defensiveness for the way they found works for them. Anyone who really wants to expand their horizons and gain valuable experience should try these different methods, besides being educational it's really fun and you will learn more than by doing a hundred cooks exactly the way you are used to.

There are many ways to skin a cat, just haven't found a good way to barbecue one.
Well said. I like to understand how different aspects of the Q process affect the final outcome and experimenting is fun. thankfully q experiments, unlike other hobbies Ive had, are inexpensive and edible.

for this slow cook what I noticed was that the smoke flavor permeated deeper into the meat. not more smoke, just deeper into the meat.

but you are also right that while I didn't have to sit there and baby the cooker it was still 26 hours of cooking.
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:25 AM   #45
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btw, I do plan( hopefully) to try this test with brisket this weekend but I think I want to try at 212 degrees. I think 180 is a little too low/slow for me
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