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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 04-02-2014, 02:56 AM   #46
Crash
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I have to say the ribs, based on the picture, look cooked.

I think you got screwed....it does happen. Sorry dude.
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Old 04-02-2014, 12:35 PM   #47
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Can someone explain how you can have that much pull back on a rib and not have it be at least 145 degrees. That is a shame that the rep. didn't handle that differently. it may have not been cooked perfectly, but there is no way it did not reach 145.

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Old 04-02-2014, 08:56 PM   #48
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Quote:
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Based on what I have read, the Rep. told the team that the judge did not taste the rib. Based on the box shown, it would be hard for me to say a rib was raw without at least trying to bite into it. However, I have copied the Rep Advisory regarding uncooked meat and it looks like a judge doesn't have to taste something to declare it undercooked or raw.

2.04
Under Cooked Meat
Question: Uncooked meat doesn’t seem to violate any rules. How do you score
an entry if a judge refuses to eat their sample because it is undercooked?
Opinion:
Under cooked meat poses a health problem and shouldn’t be eaten. A score of two (2) through nine (9) should be given for taste and tenderness by the judge(s) who refuse to eat the entry. This is not a disqualification and therefore should not be given a one (1). Assuming the entry has already been scored for appearance, do not go back and change the score given for appearance.


I posted this above a couple of days ago and have been thinking about it since. I am going to guess, there are a few KCBS BoD's who look at this forum. So, I'm going to say to them, please take a look at this Rep Advisory and take away the Rep's discretion in how to score a sample when a judge refuses to taste it. My advice is to change the language so the Rep must take the average score for taste and tenderness at that table, for that type of meat and award those averages to the sample in question. This takes away a Rep's ability to award a score of 2 (as in this case) just because they can. Remember, it wasn't the judge who scored a 2, it was the Rep. Thank you for looking and I hope, for team's sake, you consider a change.
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Old 04-02-2014, 10:00 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimebbq View Post
So, I'm going to say to them, please take a look at this Rep Advisory and take away the Rep's discretion in how to score a sample when a judge refuses to taste it. My advice is to change the language so the Rep must take the average score for taste and tenderness at that table, for that type of meat and award those averages to the sample in question. This takes away a Rep's ability to award a score of 2 (as in this case) just because they can. Remember, it wasn't the judge who scored a 2, it was the Rep. Thank you for looking and I hope, for team's sake, you consider a change.
Either that, or handle the situation in the same manner as when hair/brush bristles are observed on the food. If the judge refuses to sample the entry, then allow the TC or another judge to sample and score
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:58 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funtimebbq View Post
I posted this above a couple of days ago and have been thinking about it since. I am going to guess, there are a few KCBS BoD's who look at this forum. So, I'm going to say to them, please take a look at this Rep Advisory and take away the Rep's discretion in how to score a sample when a judge refuses to taste it. My advice is to change the language so the Rep must take the average score for taste and tenderness at that table, for that type of meat and award those averages to the sample in question. This takes away a Rep's ability to award a score of 2 (as in this case) just because they can. Remember, it wasn't the judge who scored a 2, it was the Rep. Thank you for looking and I hope, for team's sake, you consider a change.
I do not believe the rep gives the score. The rep instructs the judge to use the scores 2-9 to score it as they, the judge determines it deserves. Keith
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:23 AM   #51
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Thanks for that. Gives the BoDs something else to think about if they want to look at change the advisory.
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:45 AM   #52
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The more I think about this the more disheartened I become! Why in the world would KCBS give the judges the right to NOT judge a piece of meat because they "think" it is raw?!? The OP stated that the rep said "The judge refused to try it because they thought it was raw". With the amount of money, time, effort, travel, passion, heart and soul that we cooks put into this hobby/sport - this should be troubling to everyone. The fact that one judge can base thier scores on your product on how they "think" it is cooked! Are you serious?!? Without even tasting it?!?

I know that that the score from that so called "judge" was dropped - that is not the point. I think KCBS needs to look into this deeper. There is way too much on the line for us cooks to let this happen. I know there are BOD members on this forum - If you are reading this thread please discuss this at the next meeting. Many posters on this thread have excellent ideas on how to combat this - Let the TC sample, another judge, average score, etc...

BTW - I am not a judge basher - Whenever I see the judges walking around I thank them for coming out and volunteering their time to come judge our product. I am great friends with several judges and many of them come by my camp after judging to chat. There are many amazing judges that take this serious and are a huge asset to this sport. To those judges I say Thank You for all that you do! To this particular "judge" I say please stay at home and cook your own ribs!
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:27 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty250 View Post
The more I think about this the more disheartened I become! Why in the world would KCBS give the judges the right to NOT judge a piece of meat because they "think" it is raw?!? The OP stated that the rep said "The judge refused to try it because they thought it was raw". With the amount of money, time, effort, travel, passion, heart and soul that we cooks put into this hobby/sport - this should be troubling to everyone. The fact that one judge can base thier scores on your product on how they "think" it is cooked! Are you serious?!? Without even tasting it?!?

I know that that the score from that so called "judge" was dropped - that is not the point. I think KCBS needs to look into this deeper. There is way too much on the line for us cooks to let this happen. I know there are BOD members on this forum - If you are reading this thread please discuss this at the next meeting. Many posters on this thread have excellent ideas on how to combat this - Let the TC sample, another judge, average score, etc...

BTW - I am not a judge basher - Whenever I see the judges walking around I thank them for coming out and volunteering their time to come judge our product. I am great friends with several judges and many of them come by my camp after judging to chat. There are many amazing judges that take this serious and are a huge asset to this sport. To those judges I say Thank You for all that you do! To this particular "judge" I say please stay at home and cook your own ribs!
Nail on the head post!..it goes back to zero credibility..an ass like this can actually judge again!!!.
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Old 04-03-2014, 09:04 PM   #54
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Earlier this evening i got off the telephone with Troy Black from the Sam's Club National BBQ Tour. We spoke for a good amount of time, and although it is highly unfortunate what occurred in Sacramento with The California Grill Billie's rib entry, everything was handled according to the KCBS rules and directives as presently in effect. The reps have TONS of experience, and ensured that everything was handled appropriately.

At no point am I saying that appropriately is synonymous with fairly. This is something that needs to be handled from the KCBS level. I have sent an email to the KCBS Judging and Rules committees, and have requested that they revisit their policies and procedures governing potentially under cooked meat.
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Old 04-04-2014, 06:24 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by DUBBAGA View Post
Earlier this evening i got off the telephone with Troy Black from the Sam's Club National BBQ Tour. We spoke for a good amount of time, and although it is highly unfortunate what occurred in Sacramento with The California Grill Billie's rib entry, everything was handled according to the KCBS rules and directives as presently in effect. The reps have TONS of experience, and ensured that everything was handled appropriately.

At no point am I saying that appropriately is synonymous with fairly. This is something that needs to be handled from the KCBS level. I have sent an email to the KCBS Judging and Rules committees, and have requested that they revisit their policies and procedures governing potentially under cooked meat.
So it's not the organizer that is responsible for the selection of judges? Sam's Club uses criteria for their finials don't they.

Hopefully someday, instead of making another farking rule, we will get at the heart of training judges. It's obvious that this judge needed to stay home and grill his/her hotdog on their own grill or at least needed some guidance to get started with judging.

I only hope this experience doesn't sour the first time cook team on comp cooking.
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:01 AM   #56
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So it's not the organizer that is responsible for the selection of judges? Sam's Club uses criteria for their finials don't they.

Hopefully someday, instead of making another farking rule, we will get at the heart of training judges. It's obvious that this judge needed to stay home and grill his/her hotdog on their own grill or at least needed some guidance to get started with judging.

I only hope this experience doesn't sour the first time cook team on comp cooking.
Certainly the reps for the Sam's Club series ultimately decide which judges participate at any event. And before the event, I do not believe there had been any incidents with this rib judge to prevent them from being there.

My recommendation to the committees were to simply make a revision to the directives provided to the Reps about how to handle certain situations. They already have a section in place potentially under cooked meat, I was only suggesting that they allow for the option to have another willing certified participant sample an entry if the initial judge isn't comfortable doing so.

*** As a side point, within 2 1/2 hrs from emailing the committees, they must have contacted the rep, as I was copied on his email back to KCBS explaining the situation. I was impressed with the fast response ***

*** update: 7:55am PST and the emails are coming in from KCBS... not looking good for the home team ***
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Old 04-04-2014, 08:27 PM   #57
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At the first Sam’s event, there were lots of mistakes but everyone worked to make it right because we all wanted it to be the best. As we progressed forward through the years there were ancillary contest and demonstrations and smooth sailing. This year, the 5th year I believe, at the Fort Worth event, there were no demos, no interaction, no comradery, no side contests, and minimal interaction with teams or public; just the “we’re here and let’s just get it over with and move on syndrome.” When Troy was asked about this involvement, or lack thereof, the answer was, Sam’s was only in it for the names on the side of the truck and the bbq contest was an “also there but, necessary evil” thing.

I honestly believe that this attitude of “familiarity breeds contempt” in the organizing and judging will be the norm and not the exception for the balance of the year and the Sam’s events will just go away. It was good while it lasted but without some enthusiasm on the part of the folks in charge, it will die a slow ignoble death.

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