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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 04-13-2014, 12:47 PM   #1
CSchieck
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Default Meat Sculpting question....

I recently took the KCBS Judge Certification Class, and learned quite a bit. However, some of what I learned has me wondering about what constitutes "sculpted meat" that would rise to the level of DQ at a KCBS Comp.

Here are the facts:

Team A has devised a way of preparing their chicken entry that will (in their mind) produce 6 absolutely uniform entries with savory, bite through skin AND moist, tender meat that any judge would score as a perfect entry. Their process, all performed at the event after meat inspection, is such:

Using boneless, skinless breasts, the team cuts/trims the breasts to approximately 2" long X 2" wide X 1/2" thick squares. There is then some seasoning of the breast meat, and skin from another portion of the chicken (parts unknown) is scraped and sized/shaped to completely wrap neatly abound the very symmetrical piece of breast meat referenced above. The scraped skin is attached with "meat glue" to the chicken breasts, and the end product before (and after) cooking is an extremely symmetrical square piece of thin chicken that does not resemble (even remotely) ANY part of a chicken that could be identified with any certainty. Clearly not a breast, or a thigh, or a leg, or a wing..... In fact, it is safe to say that the entry will not remotely resemble any other entry that the judges will sample that day.

Is this meat sculpted? It is the only entry of its kind, and could make the entry identifiable to a judge as belonging to this specific competitor if the judge was aware that the competitor used this technique. I have discussed this with some other judges, and most seem to suggest that since "cupcake chicken" is an acceptable entry (even though chickens do not have round thighs) that this must also be an acceptable entry.

If it is a valid entry, how (if at all) does the fact that you cannot identify the part of the chicken an entry originated from affect your appearance score?

Thanks for any guidance you might be able to provide.
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Unread 04-13-2014, 12:54 PM   #2
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It's a chicken category. As long as it's chicken KCBS cares less what part of the chicken it is. Any team could enter the chicken as you described and lots will start if it wins.

The thing to remember as a judge, is you score the box for appearance and after ALL judges have scored appearance, if you think it's not a legal box, say something to the TC. he will then get the Rep. It's always the reps call and they will normally side with the cook, as they should!
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Unread 04-13-2014, 01:17 PM   #3
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sculpting became virtually unenforceable several years ago.
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Unread 04-13-2014, 01:23 PM   #4
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You will only be busted for sculpting if you try to mold meat into discernible object, like making a pig out of pulled pork. Basic shapes are not sculpting to KCBS.
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Unread 04-13-2014, 01:27 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilWarBBQ View Post
You will only be busted for sculpting if you try to mold meat into discernible object, like making a pig out of pulled pork. Basic shapes are not sculpting to KCBS.
I think the explanation is molding vs. sculpting.
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Unread 04-13-2014, 01:39 PM   #6
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I can accept that this is more "molding" than "sculpting" and it not being an entry that should be DQ'd, and that makes sense. But how does one go about PROPERLY judging this entry?
As a Judge, I am supposed to judge the entry that is before me for appearance, and it matters not if there is garnish present at all. I am judging the meat and the meat alone for appearance. I am not comparing one entry to another, or allowing my preference for a certain type of meat (light v. dark, St. Louis v. Baby back) come into play. I am supposed to judge only that entry that is before me for appearance. That being said, I know what a chicken thigh looks like on a chicken. I know what all the parts look like. I know what a rib looks like, and I know what a brisket slice NORMALLY looks like. I must know these things to be able to have some objective criteria as to how the entry in front of me appears. I have no base knowledge or prior exposure to the "frankenchicken" that I described above, so how am I supposed to know if its appearance is excellent or above average? Average or Good? It is the only "frankenchicken" of this type I (or all of the other judges at my table) have ever seen. Does/should the fact that this is a hybrid ("hybird"?) of several parts of the bird matter at all for purposes of judging the entry?
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Unread 04-13-2014, 01:39 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilWarBBQ View Post
You will only be busted for sculpting if you try to mold meat into discernible object, like making a pig out of pulled pork. Basic shapes are not sculpting to KCBS.
I judged a pork entry at the AR a few years ago that the cook made a palm tree with the pork product. I was told by the Rep, it's legal, that is "artist expression", oh well not my call!
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Unread 04-13-2014, 03:41 PM   #8
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Good luck for that team scoring well with chicken breast .
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Unread 04-13-2014, 04:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnbish View Post
Good luck for that team scoring well with chicken breast .
I've seen boneless breast get a walk before
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Unread 04-13-2014, 04:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffR View Post
I've seen boneless breast get a walk before
Like a whole walk? I think you missed my joke .
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Unread 04-13-2014, 05:56 PM   #11
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Its up to the Rep to make the call. If you believe it might be sculpting it should go up the chain and see if any one salutes it.
I've asked a couple times and was told can anyone do that? If answer is yes then we salute. One time I didn't ask thinking the open category allowed open garnish... nope DQ


It would have to be farking amazing looking chicken stick to get a decent score on appearance, hell of a risk to take.
Muffin chicken thighs can be amazing looking in a train wreck sort of way just like taste there is cooking to compete.
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Unread 04-13-2014, 05:58 PM   #12
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I think you would apply the same criteria to the "frankenchicken" that you would apply to the other more commonly presented pieces of chicken.

So, for appearance, is the color even, are the shapes even, how does it look, placement in the box, and sauce.

If someone turned in the gizzards, hearts, and sliced liver of the chicken how would you know how to judge it? And those are not "manufactured" pieces of chicken.

You said you know what a brisket slice looks like, but you can also turn in brisket shredded and cubed.

I think if you applied the judging criteria above, you could judge whatever part or style of the meat that is presented.
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Unread 04-13-2014, 09:58 PM   #13
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This was a DQ: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...36&postcount=9

That was not molded, it was done with a spatula.

To me, the rule against sculpting is there to prevent a judge identify the team. I don't think a square of chicken (or a square of pulled pork) would do that, but a rep could certainly see it differently.
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Unread 04-14-2014, 08:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBQ View Post
This was a DQ: http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...36&postcount=9

That was not molded, it was done with a spatula.

To me, the rule against sculpting is there to prevent a judge identify the team. I don't think a square of chicken (or a square of pulled pork) would do that, but a rep could certainly see it differently.
Why would this be DQ'd but ice cream scoops are fine?
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Unread 04-14-2014, 09:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModelMaker View Post
Why would this be DQ'd but ice cream scoops are fine?
Ed
No idea, but it's something cooks should be aware of when boxing.
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