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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:20 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by White Dog BBQ View Post
How are they supposed to prepare if they don't even know what rules they will be competing under next year?
Wellll, I dunno, a team could cook a bone-in butt over 5 pounds and part it out as they were boxing it. You know, like BBQ.
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Unread 11-18-2013, 11:32 PM   #47
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KCBS is better off getting it right vs putting a flawed rule in place. The 2014 rule was/is flawed. The current rule along with enforcement is the best solution at this point and before everyone starts in about pork Nazi's and NASCAR style referees again think about what's really needed; 5 or 10 random spot checks in the morning of turn in's isn't that time consuming. They can but done when the clock is being run around - "Hi clock check and you've been selected for a random pork check - please show me your pork" "Sure, here ya go" - opens cooker or hold box - shows legal whole butt or legal separated butt out of the cooker. "Thanks very much - good luck today"

Takes 2 minutes at most.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 06:57 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexa RnQ View Post
Wellll, I dunno, a team could cook a bone-in butt over 5 pounds and part it out as they were boxing it. You know, like BBQ.
Well, I dunno, I would like to know what cooking method I should be practicing for next year.

I really couldn't care less which rule is in effect for next year, I just want to know what that is. While I have never understood why cooking a phosphate-injected, butter-braised pork butt still qualifies as BBQ, but the second you part it out it becomes something else, whatever, I can work with it. Likewise, if if I can part out to my heart's content, fine, I'll find a way to make it work. But for heaven's sake just tell me what the rule is!

Mike, I agree 100% with your spot check idea. I don't think the rules should be changed to accommodate cheating. While I wouldn't mind having the ability to put my pork back on after it is pulled and sliced to heat up the product, firm up the bark, set the sauce, etc. (and for both cooking and food safety reasons, I think it's silly that we can't do that for the last 20 minutes before turn-in), whatever, I can live with it. Just settle it, try something for a year, and see what happens.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 07:19 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Dog BBQ View Post
To me, the biggest issue is that we are 1.5 months from the start of the 2014 season, and no one seems to have any idea what the pork rule will be next year. With the epic TotY races we've had the last several years, teams will likely be starting earlier than ever in 2014 trying to rack up points. How are they supposed to prepare if they don't even know what rules they will be competing under next year?

KCBS and competition BBQ have experienced incredible growth the last several years, but I have to wonder how long it can continue when we keep seeing things like this. Why should a sponsor commit a significant portion of its advertising budget to a sanctioning body that can't even set its rules in a timely manner?

I really doubt that the teams that will compete for Pork ToY in KCBS are fretting over how they are going to cook their pork come January.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 07:44 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slamdunkpro View Post
They can but done when the clock is being run around - "Hi clock check and you've been selected for a random pork check - please show me your pork" "Sure, here ya go" - opens cooker or hold box - shows legal whole butt or legal separated butt out of the cooker. "Thanks very much - good luck today"

Takes 2 minutes at most.
2 minutes later a portion of the legally separated butt is back in the cooker.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 07:57 AM   #51
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The current rule along with enforcement is the best solution at this point and before everyone starts in about pork Nazi's .
I take it you didn't catch the sarcasm ?
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Unread 11-19-2013, 08:11 AM   #52
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I really doubt that the teams that will compete for Pork ToY in KCBS are fretting over how they are going to cook their pork come January.
Huh. I know several teans that are practicing now for next year, some that will make a push for TotY and some that won't. You don't think this rule will affect their cooking methods?
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Unread 11-19-2013, 08:35 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by White Dog BBQ View Post
Huh. I know several teans that are practicing now for next year, some that will make a push for TotY and some that won't. You don't think this rule will affect their cooking methods?
Some of those usual contenders have been working on alternate methods for a while, I guarantee it. A rules change may change their method, but I don't expect any dramatic changes. Those cooks that are at the top every year are there because they are great cooks.

If a rules change had any impact, I'd expect the gap between top cooks and the next tier to increase no matter what the change is. The best cooks will adapt more quickly, probably work harder at it, and the results will reflect that.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 09:47 AM   #54
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Why does the KCBS have rules anyway, no one polices or enforces them. People are more concerned about a water supply being close to their site than a guy getting his cooker back up to temp in the morning with a propane torch with his meat still on it. I like to part my butt and return to the cooker, we obviously no longer do it and results haven't changed, it was just part of the morning motion. Allow me to part and I will, tell me I cant and my results wont change. But the fighting over all these rules is crazy, because never once have I seen a team DQ'd for "breaking a rule" beside for what was put or not put in the box. Just keep cooking what you cook, nothing will change.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:37 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooSaucedToPork View Post
I take it you didn't catch the sarcasm ?
Why yes I did


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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:48 AM   #56
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I really doubt that the teams that will compete for Pork ToY in KCBS are fretting over how they are going to cook their pork come January.
+1000 I have a feeling that the give a chit quotient is very low for the better teams.
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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:34 PM   #57
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The KCBS Board of Directors (bod@kcbs.us) and the Rules Committee (rules@kcbs.us) are willing, even glad, to hear their members' thoughts on rules changes.

Last year at the Open Rules meeting not one person there spoke up in favor of keeping the parting rule. Out of all of the e-mail responses to the Rules Committee regarding the pork rule not one stated that they were in favor of keeping it the way it was. Each and every member who mentioned the pork parting rule said to ditch it.

So - loaded with that information from the members - I proposed, and the BoD passed, a new pork rule. After a little tweaking Jeff re-submitted the proposed rule and it was passed by the Board. Jeff has now asked that the Board give their final approval to the rules changes for the 2014 BBQ season. That motion failed .
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Unread 11-19-2013, 10:35 PM   #58
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Honestly, is there a difference between cutting off a MM and putting the rest of the butt back in for pulled vs. cooking two butts, one for optimal MM and a second for optimal pulled?

It appears to me that the 'spirit' of the pork rule is to make you cook a whole butt well, but in reality, it just means that teams are cooking multiple butts to different specs. Having to cook it whole means nothing if you can cook 4 butts and pick and choose what parts of each go in the box.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 05:36 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie'48 View Post
The KCBS Board of Directors (bod@kcbs.us) and the Rules Committee (rules@kcbs.us) are willing, even glad, to hear their members' thoughts on rules changes.

Last year at the Open Rules meeting not one person there spoke up in favor of keeping the parting rule. Out of all of the e-mail responses to the Rules Committee regarding the pork rule not one stated that they were in favor of keeping it the way it was. Each and every member who mentioned the pork parting rule said to ditch it.

So - loaded with that information from the members - I proposed, and the BoD passed, a new pork rule. After a little tweaking Jeff re-submitted the proposed rule and it was passed by the Board. Jeff has now asked that the Board give their final approval to the rules changes for the 2014 BBQ season. That motion failed .
From what I was told there were under 50 people there. Even if all were cooks that is a very low percentage to our registered team count. Especially to be making assumptions that is how the majority feels.

I do not want to see KCBS change rules just to reduce the skillsets needed to cook pork or any meat.
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Unread 11-20-2013, 01:26 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rookie'48 View Post

Last year at the Open Rules meeting not one person there spoke up in favor of keeping the parting rule. Out of all of the e-mail responses to the Rules Committee regarding the pork rule not one stated that they were in favor of keeping it the way it was. Each and every member who mentioned the pork parting rule said to ditch it.
From what you said, the new rule should read like this.

Pork shall come from the shoulder.
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