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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 11-08-2013, 12:09 PM   #1
Smoking Pill Doc
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Default Question for Judges

Back in October, I was in a local unsactioned cook-off. Categories were brisket, ribs, and "open" wings. "Open" because you could cook them anyway you wanted. Being new to smoking, I entered the wing comp only. Low and behold, we took 1st !

We were told to hand in 1 drug and 1 wing per judge. We opted to have the drum be a chipotle lime flavor and the wing as a sweet chilli. We were the only team to submit 2 flavors.

The end result was good as we won, but is it a good or bad idea to hand in 2 flavors? One of the judges was KCBS certified, but I never got to talk with him . No taste-o-internet, but attached is a picture of our "box".

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Unread 11-08-2013, 03:23 PM   #2
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In an unsanctioned wing contest it is probably not a bad idea as long as there is enough of both for all the judges, and a judge can tell the difference by looking (drum v. wing).
In a KCBS contest I definitely wouldn't advise it, as judges are to sample everything in the box and average their score. If the judge doesn't care for one or the other it will hurt your overall score.
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Unread 11-08-2013, 06:28 PM   #3
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It is risky. If the taste complement one another it might work. I tried it with brisket recently. Slices one profile, ends another. Both tasted good as individual samples but were questionable together. The judges killed me and I could not blame them. Keith
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Unread 11-08-2013, 08:43 PM   #4
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Got to agree with the others. By turning in two wildly different flavor profiles as one entry, you were essentially against yourself. nevertheless, glad it worked for you in this instance.
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Unread 11-08-2013, 09:43 PM   #5
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Thank you. I had meant to ask the KCBS judge but never got a chance. It is always good to get some feedback/thoughts on how to do things.
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Unread 11-09-2013, 06:49 PM   #6
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Yeah, I have to go with the other judges here. Besides the judges having to score the average and worrying about whether they like one and not the other, you have the issue of what to do with your score.

If you cook a lot of comps or are just starting out cooking, you use those scores to help refine your product.

If you turned in multiple flavor profiles and got a bat taste score, how would you know which one to work on?
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Unread 11-09-2013, 07:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoking Pill Doc View Post

We were told to hand in 1 drug and 1 wing per judge.
I'm all for handing the judges a drug before they judge my entry!

Is that a foreign substance?
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Unread 11-09-2013, 10:04 PM   #8
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Good job! But don't make any assumptions based on what happens at non-sanctioned events. They really don't tell you anything useful about what to expect in a sanctioned contest.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 07:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CivilWarBBQ View Post
Good job! But don't make any assumptions based on what happens at non-sanctioned events. They really don't tell you anything useful about what to expect in a sanctioned contest.
Agreed for the most part, but some of the non-sanctioned comps we did this year made a point of letting us know they had 80%-90% KCBS judges. So you may get a pretty accurate gauge at those types of events. Great job on the wings though!
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Unread 11-10-2013, 09:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Hog View Post
Agreed for the most part, but some of the non-sanctioned comps we did this year made a point of letting us know they had 80%-90% KCBS judges. So you may get a pretty accurate gauge at those types of events. Great job on the wings though!
Well no, I'd have to disagree. I've seen non-sanctioned events that claimed to use KCBS CBJs that also featured big departures from KCBS judging with things like comparative judging and scoring criteria such as "creativity" and "aroma".

I think most would agree the turn-in pictured certainly would not fare well at a KCBS sanctioned event, even with the illegal garnish removed.

Don't get me wrong - unsanctioned shows can be a lot of fun and help you get your equipment issues and timing worked out, but I'd hate to have folks be disappointed when they try a KCBS event going in with high expectations for a win.
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Unread 11-10-2013, 10:31 PM   #11
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Well no, I'd have to disagree. I've seen non-sanctioned events that claimed to use KCBS CBJs that also featured big departures from KCBS judging with things like comparative judging and scoring criteria such as "creativity" and "aroma".
Which is why I said I agreed for the most part. Yes, the way things are done at unsanctioned events tend to be all over the map as compared with KCBS comps. No argument there.

However, we have attended unsanctioned events in Alabama with scoring formulas just like those at a KCBS event. No creativity scores, no aroma scores, or anything else outside of taste, tenderness, and appearance. So while I agree that competing in KCBS events is the best indicator of how you will fare at KCBS events, I still think some of the unsanctioned comps can be a decent gauge for where you stand.
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Unread 11-11-2013, 08:22 AM   #12
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I'll have to go with Civil War on this one. I've got 4 grands and numerous 1st place calls at non sanctioned events that use the KCBS scoring system and "mostly" certified judges. KCBS best finish is a fourth overall and last week end got my first 1st place category call in KCBS. While the non sanctioned events are a great practice ground, I don't feel that they are a good indicator of what to cook in a KCBS event.
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Unread 11-12-2013, 07:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMTTLC View Post
I'll have to go with Civil War on this one. I've got 4 grands and numerous 1st place calls at non sanctioned events that use the KCBS scoring system and "mostly" certified judges. KCBS best finish is a fourth overall and last week end got my first 1st place category call in KCBS. While the non sanctioned events are a great practice ground, I don't feel that they are a good indicator of what to cook in a KCBS event.
Well, you and Civil have probably cooked a heck of a lot more comps than our 10, so we respect your thoughts for sure. But for what's it's worth, we've seen a very close correspondence between the teams that do well at the KCBS comps and many of the unsanctioned comps.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 12:20 AM   #14
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As a CBJ, I've judged both sanctioned and unsanctioned events. Most of the time - in my experience - unsanctioned events tend to have a lot of "volunteers" who don't know the first thing about competition BBQ. At almost every unsanctioned comp I've judged, I've had to be the a$$hole who puts the kabosh on beer drinking during judging. I've had to coach other judges at my table about proper tenderness and be the one to call out some yahoo that gives a great submission an 8 because they don't think ANYTHING deserves the best score possible.

80-90% CBJs still means 10-20% "volunteers." And that simply means a MUCH greater variance in scores.

In my opinion, this makes unsanctioned events very difficult to use as a gauge of competition entries in a sanctioned KCBS event.
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Unread 11-14-2013, 06:33 AM   #15
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Even though I have been speaking up for the 80%-90% side on here, we definitely have a few stories of our own to Southern Home Boy's point. Recently, a contest organizer stood up and told everyone at the cooks meeting that he was gonna coach the predominantly KCBS judges to ONLY judge the appearance of the meat and that competitors need not worry about the entire box (i.e. garnish, etc.). Those of us who've done a few of these things couldn't stop from laughing at that one.
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