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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:16 PM   #1
UF_Aero
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Default Hot N Fast Brisket - sorta

Soi I decided to try a brisket going hot and fast. I've seen several threads here discussing the merits (and cons, of course) but gave it a try. Here's what I attempted:
  • Started with a 12lb choice packer from Walmart.
  • Removed fat down to 1/8" as well as pockets and some of the fat between the flat and point.
  • Injected with beef broth and worchester, used remaining broth to marinade overnight
  • Dried off the next morning and coated with mustard and rub.

    Here's where things went off plan:
  • Cooked fat down while trying to get the smoker to 350F, never got past 275F. (FYI, I was using hickory and pecan wood.) Now I'm somewhere between hot and fast and low and slow!
  • At about 2 hours, I pulled it, wrapped it in foil with about a cup of apple juice and broth, and moved it to the oven at 350F.
  • Cooked for another 2 hours and then probed. The point was perfect, with the probe going in "like buttah" and hitting 204F. The flat, however, did not probe well. It was at 190F.

I rewrapped and let it go for another 30 minutes at 350F. At this point the probe inserted well in both the point and the ends of the flat, but still had some resistance in the center of the flat. However, the flat now registered 209F! I pulled the brisket, wrapped it in some new foil without the juices, and then some heavy towels, and let it rest for another hour or so.

In the end, the point was simply amazing, as were the ends of the flat. The center was still not as moist/soft was I would have liked. Of course the smoke penetration wasn't much, but I knew that would happen based on the short amount of time it was under smoke.

So, now the question - what went wrong? If I'm at 209F but still not probing easily, should I leave it alone until it does? Would the abbreviated time under smoke before foiling have done that? Any other suggestions?

Thanks!
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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:20 PM   #2
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I have done both low 'n slow and hot 'n fast. One thing I noticed about hot 'n fast is that the stall and probe tender come at higher temps then low 'n slow.

My stall happened around 180 and didn't last long. And probe tender was at 212.

I think you needed to go longer...
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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:23 PM   #3
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Yep... It wasn't done yet. The brisket reached that high of an internal temp so fast that the internal fat and connective tissues didn't have time to render. Briskets cooked hotter typically finish at a higher internal temp than briskets cooked at lower temps. Forget the point and focus on the thickest part of the flat. When that is tender, the brisket is done.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:27 PM   #4
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Thanks, that's the kind of advice I was looking for!
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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:29 PM   #5
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Yay me!

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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:32 PM   #6
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More time like they said -- forget temp.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:37 PM   #7
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What went wrong ?? You didn't cook it long enough, you are trying to bring temperatures in to the mix, you didn't follow the rules for success. The only place that need to probe tender on a brisket is the place that you failed to let cook until it was probe tender.
So what did you learn >you learned that the probe test is the last word.
you learned where to locate the only place on the brisket that has to be probe tender, if that spot is tender the rest will be too.

BBQ RULES FOR SUCCESS

YOU CAN NOT COOK GREAT BBQ ON A CONSISTENT BASIS BY COOKING TO AN INTERNAL TEMPERATURE OR BY TIME ( XXX MIN PER LB) YOU MUST COOK BY FEEL! For Brisket it must pass the poke test(probe like soft butter in the thickest part of the Flat) Ribs pass the Bend Test, Pork Butts when the bone wiggles loose. These are the only reliable methods to ensure that your cook will be a success. There is one exception to these rules and that is Poultry which must achieve and internal temp of 170 deg in the thickest part of the thigh and 165 in the breast.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 02:57 PM   #8
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Just to add one thing. I completely agree about temp not being the important factor, but that temp for 2 hours at 275 and 2 hours at 350 still sounds too high for a 12 lb packer. Are you sure about your thermometer?
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Unread 09-30-2013, 03:50 PM   #9
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Bludawg, if I had any doubts that the probe test is the way to go and ignore temp altogether, this finished them off! After all the reading of people pulling them between 190 and 203, I admit to freaking out at 209 not realizing what some posters said earlier about the hot and fast method having higher finishing temps because of the time needed to render. I'm convinced next brisket cook I'm using a small skewer and nothing connected to a readout!

As for the temp, I trust the thermometer. The 350F was in a convection oven, so it was potentially a bit hotter, and after fat trimming keep in mind the brisket was probably closer to 10 lbs. So I do think the center of the flat was 209F. All that said, clearly the right thing to do was to keep going!!
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Unread 09-30-2013, 03:58 PM   #10
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Thanks for the explanation of the trimmed weight and convection oven. That makes more sense.
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Unread 09-30-2013, 04:08 PM   #11
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Seems like you got it figured out UF Aero, we all have to learn.
Now the next one you do will turn out great!
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