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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:37 PM   #1
SaucyWench
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Default First Experience with KCBScore

Yesterday was the first competition I've judged since KCBScore was implemented, and after hearing some comments from cooks, I have a concern about the fact that table numbers are not changed.
Rumor has it that some competitors are asking judges after awards for their table numbers, and their seat number, and who else was at their table, and what their seat numbers were, in order to find out who scored their entry lower than they thought it should be. While I would hope this isn't common, to me, it totally goes against the blind judging that we expect from KCBS.
I have no problem with KCBS tracking my scoring, or cooks seeing how I and the other 5 judges at my table scored on average in that category on that day. However, I do have a problem with being "outed" if I got a bad piece of chicken or a fatty brisket chunk and scored it as I felt was appropriate. Just as I don't know if I'm sampling a friend's turn-in or if it came from someone I don't know, I don't want cooks to know which judges to love or hate that day!
I seriously feel like this needs to be addressed by KCBS. What do you think, Brethren & Sistren?
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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:47 PM   #2
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Do the rumors also say if the judges who get asked the questions answer all of them. Do these judges in fact "out" their fellow judges? I've only judged a few times as I'm normally cooking, but if a cook team asked me where I was sitting, what my seat number was, who else was at the table I would know pretty quickly what they were trying to do and not answer.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:49 PM   #3
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Blind judging is blind judging.. But after the dust settles and we all get our score sheets, some people with bad scores could be more than inclined to ask their judge friends if it was them or not. It might be blind to judges, but it's not totally 100% blind to us cooks once we get our sheets, and can ask judges that happen to be there on Saturday. You are still judging blind at the time.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 08:50 PM   #4
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I would also have to say, none of my entries this weekend hit the high scoring table, and one of my entries hit one of the low scoring tables. It was very interesting to get to see my new score sheet.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:11 PM   #5
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Now, with the details that KCBScore gives I will never reveal what table I sat at!
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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:14 PM   #6
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I do not know if the judges who were asked answered in full, and as I said this was rumor. But in the past, it would not have mattered if you told your table and seat number, as they didn't have that info on their score sheets...it was just judge 1,2,3,4,5,6 at a random table.
I guess it is still blind judging, but there are comps where the judging is out in the open with competitors within hearing distance (think Owensboro). Not hard at all for a cook to at least figure out the table numbers, if not seat numbers.
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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:31 PM   #7
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K n K had the scoop
If there are 12 tables like at Huntington Ca
You should say table 13 judge 7
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Unread 08-18-2013, 09:49 PM   #8
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I have judged several KCBS comps under the new scoring system and have been asked by several teams to reveal where I sat. My standard answer is that I have the duty to do my part to maintain the integrity of the scoring system and as such cannot and will not reveal where I or any other judge sat during the judging process. I respect what the teams do to cook for comps and I hope that the cooks have the same respect for the judging process. Also, it is difficult to remember exactly how I scored any sample unless the sample was a standout, good or bad.

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Unread 08-19-2013, 06:00 AM   #9
Rich Parker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaucyWench View Post
Yesterday was the first competition I've judged since KCBScore was implemented, and after hearing some comments from cooks, I have a concern about the fact that table numbers are not changed.
Rumor has it that some competitors are asking judges after awards for their table numbers, and their seat number, and who else was at their table, and what their seat numbers were, in order to find out who scored their entry lower than they thought it should be. While I would hope this isn't common, to me, it totally goes against the blind judging that we expect from KCBS.
I have no problem with KCBS tracking my scoring, or cooks seeing how I and the other 5 judges at my table scored on average in that category on that day. However, I do have a problem with being "outed" if I got a bad piece of chicken or a fatty brisket chunk and scored it as I felt was appropriate. Just as I don't know if I'm sampling a friend's turn-in or if it came from someone I don't know, I don't want cooks to know which judges to love or hate that day!
I seriously feel like this needs to be addressed by KCBS. What do you think, Brethren & Sistren?
Why does it matter if someone asked you why you scored an entry the way you did like your example of bad chicken or fatty brisket? Just tell them it was bad.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 06:42 AM   #10
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Coming from an MIM and MBN background, I'm right there with Rich. Tell them. As a judge, I'm accustomed to talking with teams. As a competitor, I'm accustomed to talking with the judge. I mean it's subjective for goodness sake. Everyone has an opinion.... For that matter, it's normal for an on-site judge to later come back and discuss with the teams (after it's all said and done with)...
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Unread 08-19-2013, 06:52 AM   #11
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I've done 2 contests with the new score sheets and have had bbq friends judging both events. After awards I asked both of them which table they were sitting at..really don't care which seat. My thought is this....if someone does remember my entry, good or bad, I'd like to have some insight. In one case, the judge was able to give me a general over view of his samples (everything looked and tasted almost the same...nothing stood out). In the other case, I had won the table and my entry stood out and was able to get some insight on what made it stand out. Both instances were very helpful. I will continue to ask judges I know which table they were sitting at. I will also respect the judges wishes if they don't want to divulge that info.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 07:25 AM   #12
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I haven't run into it yet but if asked I'll just tell them I was at the good table, just like when I'm asked how the meat was that day I tell them most were very good with a couple bad ones though.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 07:26 AM   #13
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We seem to want to think that this is cloak-and-dagger stuff. It's not. The only purpose for the blind is to level the playing field; that's all. Once judging is complete, the game is over. Why not talk? Why not explain. If you dont like someones Q, tell them for goodness sake. If you dont want to, then dont.
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Started competing in chili cookoffs back in the 1990's and have competed in more than I care to count. I became a CBJ in MiM in 2005, then MBN and in GBA in 2010. I've probably judged 130+- BBQ comps (sanctioned and unsanctioned) over this time. That said, I really enjoy competing more than I enjoy judging, and hope to get back to doing 4 or 5 a year in the near future.

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Unread 08-19-2013, 09:11 AM   #14
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I would love to hear why judges didn't like my chicken (33rd) or brisket (28th) in Hudson Valley last weekend. They are almost always top 10, and often top 5 entries, and there were no problems with our cook that I could detect. I would love to see comment cards come back.

I do think that judges shouldn't out other judges. If a judge wants to reveal where THEY sat, that's their choice, but they don't have the right expose others.
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Unread 08-19-2013, 10:10 AM   #15
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I would have to look it up and see if it is actually in the rules but I can remember a few years ago a discussion about judges talking to the teams after judging that if they got detailed enough to specify a certain entry judged that they could be subject to banishment and loosing their CBJ status. When I am asked I try to be pretty non-committal about the entries, I usually respond like "All the rib entries were good, but some of the brisket was only average or worse."
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