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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


View Poll Results: Do you find comment cards helpful?
Yes 164 83.25%
No 20 10.15%
Uncertain 13 6.60%
Voters: 197. You may not vote on this poll

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Unread 07-30-2013, 12:19 AM   #91
Smokedelic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
mike, agreed, but i don't think you're going to get that kind of depth in a comment card.

the 5's and 6's will tell you all you need to know at that point. as hawg so eloquently stated, read the data provided.

change what you're putting in the box.
Change how?

Dry...tough...falling apart....sloppy....too spicy....those are all comments I could use as a newbie to help me figure out what changes to make. As an experienced cook, I disregard most, if not all, of it.

Comment cards aren't for ALL of us, but they are for SOME of us....especially the SOME of us that we ALL need to help this hobby grow.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 06:08 AM   #92
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fair enough. i still think it's alot of to do for a somewhat small return.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 06:29 AM   #93
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I think even one word comments can help show what went wrong.

I turned in ribs awhile ago that were great right off the smoker.Taste and appearance were good but I got two 5s in texture.That could have meant they were mushy or it coulda meant they were tough.Thankfully 2 judges wrote "tough" on the cards and it became obvious I had totally screwed up the timing of cutting the ribs, they went in the box way to early and sat way to long before hitting the table, nobodys fault but mine but thanks to those comments you can bet it wont happen again.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 06:38 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokinrack View Post
I think even one word comments can help show what went wrong.

I turned in ribs awhile ago that were great right off the smoker.Taste and appearance were good but I got two 5s in texture.That could have meant they were mushy or it coulda meant they were tough.Thankfully 2 judges wrote "tough" on the cards and it became obvious I had totally screwed up the timing of cutting the ribs, they went in the box way to early and sat way to long before hitting the table, nobodys fault but mine but thanks to those comments you can bet it wont happen again.
edit-reread. i get it. good deal.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 08:13 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
see, now ya got me goin...

WTF does ALMOST too tender mean?
Ok, we will both get goin, lol. WHERE did I say almost too tender? I said it was overdone, it was a little mushy when chewed, otherwise it was a great rib.

Edit to add: I see you were responding to the comment card that I used as an example. That was not MY comment card.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 08:23 AM   #96
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My only comment about comment cards is that I want to know wtf Judge # 3 was thinking when he gave me 666 and 5 other judges gave me either 999 or 998 or some combination of 9's and 8's...
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Unread 07-30-2013, 08:38 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbq.tom View Post
Hance (Lake Dogs) designed a comment card with pre-populated comments that could be checked off to indicate the situation - both good and bad. Sure would great to see his idea again!

If you listen to the July BOD meeting you will know/understand the concerns over the comment cards and how the REPS efforts would increase to make them work.

Candy,

We can search around and find what I'd come up with a while back.

The problem, as I see it, is two fold:

1. Judges perspective: It's time consuming to fill out and frankly a pain in the butt

2. Cooks perspective: Is only useful if it's accurate


What, a comment card be inaccurate? Say it's' not so. Well, I've received both positive and negative comments on my card, but the ones that drive me batty are those that suggest that the meat was undercooked and falling apart, or overcooked and tough, etc. etc.

I'm of the opinion that they should be short, sweet, and to the point. And, this can be done by a check box system, by category:

Tenderness, is too:
_ tough _ dry _ crunchy
_ mushy _ greasy
_ grainy/gristle _ fatty

Taste, is too (or tastes like):
_ bland _ spicy/hot _ smokey
_ salty _ burned _ off-taste
_ sweet _ fuel/petroleum _ saucy


etc. I had a system that was pretty close (much better than above) a while back. Let me see if I cant find it.

I think the check box system would facilitate speed for judges and give the cooks specific feedback without the B.S.

Below is some that I said earlier:
------------------------------------------

For a long time I've been a fan of check-box comments, because knowing some of this could/would be helpful (IMHO). I mean, as a cook, I'd like to know. Probably the easiest would be tenderness:
Mushy Tough Rubbery Crunchy Greasy Dry Fatty

Taste might be:
too salty too sweet bland petroleum too spicy/hot off-taste too smokey too saucy

Appearance, probably not. It's purely subjective as to what the individual finds appetizing. They either do, or dont.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 09:20 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boogiesnap View Post
i'm not worried. i know when the samples are good and when they're not.

let's say this....if you get ALL 6's and one judge fills out a comment card, really think that is gonna help the cook? um, no their food sucked.

OR, if you get all 9's and one 5 and the judge filled out a comment card, gonna change your cook? um, no.

anything in between is subject to being subjective, a judges privieldge, and you can't change that.

interpret THAT data, fella.

BTW, did you mean LSD? because i have no idea what LCD(liquid crystal diodes)means in relation to competition BBQ.
Least common denominator. A common acronym when talking data. Also a way of stating there is no reason to dumb it down for those not capable of digesting the data.

Sure you know everything that the judges are thinking, but I prefer to hear it from them.
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Unread 07-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #99
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Boogie, I've had scores come back all over the place and comment cards would've really helped. I've also had helpful cards, and some that were bizarre and showed how little the judge knew and didnt tell me why he/she didnt like it... So, for me, all over the chart.

I think they can be VERY helpful, particularly to the newer cooks or those doing a "test run" if you will. But, they're only as good as they are accurate. Telling someone not to use lighterfluid when they dont use lighterfluid, or telling them how to cook, is goofy and stupid. However, saying something like "it tastes or smells like petroleum" is much better. Who knows, they may not have used any but their smoker may wreak of it...

I like them, I think they can be very helpful, but in their current way they're largely useless...
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Unread 07-30-2013, 10:13 AM   #100
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If I get a comment card for a 9 that says the taste was just the right amount of sweet and spice, but on the same entry I get a 6 from a different judge saying it's too spicy, should I write that off? I'm going to say no.

In the past if I get 8,8,9,9,8,6 for taste, I'm at a loss for why that 6 got in there. Granted, the 6 will probably not be counted, but I'm looking at the next contest where I may have two judge 6's that don't like spicy.

I can't tell you right now without tasting the product of whether I thought it was too spicy or not that day, but my starting point is a lot narrower window with mandatory comments, regardless of the score.

I can make the decision of changing or not based on what I know the product to be that day, combined with the judges comments and scores.
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Unread 07-31-2013, 04:56 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince RnQ View Post
In 2011, the KCBS Rules Committee suggested that comment cards be modified so that there were check boxes that said things like:

Too Salty
Too Sweet
Too Spicey
Under Seasoned
Off Flavor
Over Cooked
Under Cooked

This idea was never addressed to the best of my knowledge but it sure seemed like a very good improvement to those of us on the committee.
And a section for things they put on comment cards but shouldn't
  • Meat was too cold
  • Didn't have more than 6 pieces
  • Didn't have pulled in the pork box
  • Didn't have slices in the pork box
  • Didn't have burnt ends in the brisket box
  • Was really, really good but I never give 9s (the "new england" option)
  • Was really, really bad but I never give under a 7 (the "southern state" option)
  • Portions too small to put in my cooler
  • I don't eat [check all the apply] chicken, pork, beef
  • I don't like smoked meat

Seriously, I think the pull tab is a good idea - or just put the team number at the bottom and tear it off. No need for special paper. There aren't a LOT of comment cards, so wouldn't be a lot of work for the reps. I also think check boxes would be helpful, but should include compliments as well as negative things to encourage the judges to use them for things they like too
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Unread 07-31-2013, 05:04 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake Dogs View Post
Telling someone not to use lighterfluid when they dont use lighterfluid, or telling them how to cook, is goofy and stupid.
Agreed judges should comment on what they tasted and not what they thought the cook did wrong, though one can translate the lighter fluid comment to mean "it was over smoked and you got creosote on your meat"
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Unread 08-01-2013, 09:52 AM   #103
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Some comments are a bit confusing as most judges don’t have enough time to write proper notes while judging. I’ve gotten judging notes that say:
Judge 1. Too spicy
Judge 2. Not enough spice
Judge 3. Too much sauce
Judge 4. Not enough sauce.
Judge 5. Overcooked
Judge 6. Undercooked
In other words, in something as subjective as taste, sometimes judge’s notes can be worthless and take you down the wrong path on the next cook if you take them to heart. I try and concentrate more on overall score as compared to the other cookers to make minor adjustments.
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Unread 08-01-2013, 10:58 AM   #104
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Thanks for all the feedback! One of the committee members came up with a cracker jack version with descriptions contributed by this thread. I truly appreciate every comment on comment cards.
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Unread 08-02-2013, 09:27 AM   #105
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In my opinion, the comment cards provide value and insight. We tried a sauce that flopped. It was an experiment and without the cards I would not of known what the issue of the ok scores were. And now that sauce is retired :>)
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