The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS.


Forum Portal Recipes Smoke Signals Magazine Welocme Merchandise Associations Purchase Subscription Brethren Banners
Go Back   The BBQ BRETHREN FORUMS. > Discussion Area > Competition BBQ

Notices

Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


Reply
Thread Tools
Unread 07-10-2013, 09:05 AM   #76
Podge
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 09-25-06
Location: Elk Creek, Ky.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Just shows there are two sets of Competition BBQ'ers, those who have potential to win, and those who can't and bitch about it.
Podge is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 09:51 AM   #77
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Podge View Post
Just shows there are two sets of Competition BBQ'ers, those who have potential to win, and those who can't and bitch about it.
I don't know about all that. As the head cook of the FatBack Collective, Pat Martin made the final table at Memphis in May in 2011 for whole hog, and Peg Leg came in ninth in shoulder in 2013.

For those interested in what the heck Pat Martin knows about good (restaraunt) BBQ, check out the following article:

http://www.10best.com/destinations/t...ants/barbecue/

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 07-10-2013, 11:37 AM   #78
Q-Dat
Babbling Farker

 
Q-Dat's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-08
Location: Pearl River LA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

As far as the "Homogenization" of flavors in competition BBQ goes. Its going to continue until there is some sort of reward for individuality.

I don't see that happening.
Q-Dat is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-10-2013, 12:03 PM   #79
Podge
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 09-25-06
Location: Elk Creek, Ky.
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Dat View Post
As far as the "Homogenization" of flavors in competition BBQ goes. Its going to continue until there is some sort of reward for individuality.

I don't see that happening.

I think there can be reward for individuality. As long as it flavor fits with the definition of American BBQ, therefore, individuality can only go so far.. I try to do that all the time. I don't want to be the same as everyone else. So far, that line of thinking has worked out for me.
Podge is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-10-2013, 12:35 PM   #80
Rich Parker
Babbling Farker

 
Rich Parker's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-20-09
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Carey Bringle: Iíve seen it in the KCBS circuits, but I donít see it in the MBM [Memphis] circuit. The MBM folks seem to have more laid-back party get-together kind of time, whereas the KCBS guys seem to be more me and my wife against the world, **** everybody else. Quiet time at 10 p.m. The first time I did a KCBS competition, they almost threw me out four times because I didnít know what the hell quiet time was. I was like, "What do you mean quiet time in a barbecue competition? What kind of bull**** is that? Itís about staying up and having a good time. Weíre getting our second keg delivered here."
This has got to be the furthest statement from the truth I have ever read about competition BBQ especially KCBS events that I have been to.

I have watched competitors give other competitors rubs, sauces, meat, injections, wood, charcoal, knives, park their trailer, make their boxes, change their tire, wake them up, start their fire, and fix their truck!

We have potlucks that rival most 5 star restaurants and share all of our food with our neighbors.
__________________
WSM and UDS - iBQ'n BBQ Team co-founder TheBBQSuperstore.com sponsored by Deep South Smokers
Rich Parker is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 12:47 PM   #81
Q-Dat
Babbling Farker

 
Q-Dat's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-08
Location: Pearl River LA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Podge View Post
I think there can be reward for individuality. As long as it flavor fits with the definition of American BBQ, therefore, individuality can only go so far.. I try to do that all the time. I don't want to be the same as everyone else. So far, that line of thinking has worked out for me.
True but what I am thinking of is "individuality" being added as a 4th scoring criteria. Of course it would need to be weighted below the other three in value, but I think it would go a long way towards fixing the problem. Lets face it. It woyld be the least important category, but I doubt anyone would want to leave those potential points on the table.

But like I said. It ain't gonna happen.
Q-Dat is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 01:56 PM   #82
tnjimbob
Full Fledged Farker
 
tnjimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-02-12
Location: Nashville, Tn
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Although I don't think restaurant 'que & competition 'que are mutually exclusive, there isn't a lot of common ground. Many competitors who want to get into the restaurant business will parlay their awards into some sort of pedigree, like "award winning...", "championship...", etc., while people who start out in restaurants don't usually start competing, except for maybe Chris Lilly. If anything, I see more competitors opening BBQ places than the other way around.

Competition cooks generally say that if they had a restaurant, they would have to charge exorbitant prices to produce competition 'que and they say they would have a hard time repeating that process consistently on a daily basis.

I think that restaurant 'que tends to focus more on simplifying the process to insure consistency, focusing more on cooking than seasoning, injecting, etc. as competitors focus on. One sure way to get people to dislike restaurant 'que is for it to be amazing one day, and lousy the next time you visit. Of course, patrons who visit other BBQ places between visits can alter their perception of what good BBQ tastes like, and upon their return, the original place's 'que won't be as good as they remembered.

This is not to say that restaurants can't be successful competitors, and competitors can be successful restauranteurs, but there isn't generally much overlap between the two. Regardless of the homogenization or dissonance that exists within BBQ, I don't believe that there will be much crossover until competition 'que begins winning with restaurant 'que. I don't see that happening either.
__________________
Traeger Lil' Tex Elite, WSM, Green SS Performer, 22" OTG, hyperfast orange Thermapen. CBJ.
tnjimbob is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from:--->
Unread 07-10-2013, 02:19 PM   #83
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Dat View Post
True but what I am thinking of is "individuality" being added as a 4th scoring criteria. Of course it would need to be weighted below the other three in value, but I think it would go a long way towards fixing the problem. Lets face it. It woyld be the least important category, but I doubt anyone would want to leave those potential points on the table.

But like I said. It ain't gonna happen.

Actually, and especially with seasoned judges, individuality is appreciated, even desired and rewarded. That said, it still has to taste good and still has to taste like something that harkens the notion of BBQ.

A guy who I happen to highly respect and is a brethren went out and created a rub and sauce combination that went fairly heavily down the rasberry trail. I'll say this; rasberries are very tart; VERY. Tart, like salt, or cayenne heat, etc. isn't everyones cup of tea. He was trounced in the scoreing, and came away with "uniqueness is punished". I would suggest that they didnt punish the uniqueness, but punished the tart.
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from everywhere)
Lake Dogs is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-10-2013, 02:28 PM   #84
dmprantz
is One Chatty Farker
 
Join Date: 01-11-08
Location: Nashville
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I think that was half of Pat's point about all the briskets tasting like beef boulion. "Winners" often (usually?) inject or otherwise cook with a salty beef based liquid because it's what wins, and winning techniques are copied. The other, unspoken part of his comments are that teams look for a lot of flavour in one bite, wether that flavour is beef, salt, or sugar. He doesn't think it's good BBQ, but maybe he just doesn't understand KCBS BBQ?

The other, point is of course that The Jack, that pinnacle of competition, putting the luckiest and best of the best against each other uses judges who don't know much about judging. People who are celebrities and have been a CBJ for less than 24 hours. Sure the comments can (and will) be made that "good BBQ is good BBQ," and several of the recent winners (iQue, Quau, Pig Skin) have been dominant teams, but I think it's a good point to remember. Just rambling thoughts I guess.

dmp
dmprantz is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 02:36 PM   #85
Q-Dat
Babbling Farker

 
Q-Dat's Avatar
 
Join Date: 12-03-08
Location: Pearl River LA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake Dogs View Post
Actually, and especially with seasoned judges, individuality is appreciated, even desired and rewarded. That said, it still has to taste good and still has to taste like something that harkens the notion of BBQ.

A guy who I happen to highly respect and is a brethren went out and created a rub and sauce combination that went fairly heavily down the rasberry trail. I'll say this; rasberries are very tart; VERY. Tart, like salt, or cayenne heat, etc. isn't everyones cup of tea. He was trounced in the scoreing, and came away with "uniqueness is punished". I would suggest that they didnt punish the uniqueness, but punished the tart.

Yes, it does of course still have to taste good, but I think KCBS judging classes are influencing the new judges notion of what good is supposed to taste like. Oh I know that they don't come right out and tell them what to like, but they do tell them that good BBQ should be "balanced". I am so sick of this idea that balanced flavors are necessarily good. Theres a big difference between BBQ that tastes great and BBQ that doesn't taste "offensive". What we actually have is mild flavors, bordering on bland that are being balanced by training wheels. In this case the training wheels are in the form of sugar or other sweetness because its the easy way to round out the sharp edges on some flavors without having to get very creative.

Balanced and good are not necessarily the same thing.
Q-Dat is offline   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-10-2013, 02:38 PM   #86
landarc
somebody shut me the fark up.

 
landarc's Avatar
 
Join Date: 06-26-09
Location: San Leandro, CA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

I don't happen to think BBQ, at any level or venue particularly rewards innovation. I get the chance to talk with CBJ's, cooks and aficionados of BBQ fairly often out here, along with restaurant owners, and the final thing I walk away with, is that there is a very narrow window for which BBQ can be good. People across a broad spectrum have an idea of what BBQ is, and if you vary from that, they get uncomfortable. There are differences by region, but, even there, the differences are really small. KCBS is one form of BBQ flavor, but, I don't think it varies all that much from other forms, it just pushes one or two profiles more.
__________________
I'm feeling bearish, and I'm packing a Wusthof Grand Brisket slicer from MABA

Whip It Off, Chambers!

"perhaps...but then again...maybe not..."
landarc is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 02:45 PM   #87
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q-Dat View Post
Yes, it does of course still have to taste good, but I think KCBS judging classes are influencing the new judges notion of what good is supposed to taste like. Oh I know that they don't come right out and tell them what to like, but they do tell them that good BBQ should be "balanced". I am so sick of this idea that balanced flavors are necessarily good. Theres a big difference between BBQ that tastes great and BBQ that doesn't taste "offensive". What we actually have is mild flavors, bordering on bland that are being balanced by training wheels. In this case the training wheels are in the form of sugar or other sweetness because its the easy way to round out the sharp edges on some flavors without having to get very creative.

Balanced and good are not necessarily the same thing.

I haven't been to a KCBS judging class, but I would hope that they aren't telling them what it should or shouldn't taste like, or that it should be "balanced" or not. They may, and IMHO that would be wrong.

That said, it's different in giving advice to new competitors. Telling them to try not to **** off any one judge is one thing, but instructing judges as to what and how to score it, that's another matter altogether.
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from everywhere)
Lake Dogs is online now   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #88
Lake Dogs
Quintessential Chatty Farker

 
Lake Dogs's Avatar
 
Join Date: 07-14-09
Location: Lake Sinclair, GA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Kind of a side spin on this topic; some sanctioning bodies allow sauce presented on the side, and some of them allow multiple sauces. The last few times I competed in MBN I presented our main sauce and a second sauce on the side. The second sauce was a vinegar sauce that I'd never, ever, under any circumstance present it as just the one sauce, because not all judges like vinegar on their BBQ. But, some do. The ones that like it, tend to love it and it helps our scores IMHO. The ones that dont tend to like to drink our main sauce straight, and IMHO that too helps our scores. I also think presenting the sauce on the side helps because it allows the judge to choose how much sauce they think compliments the meat, and how much they prefer. After all, it's about appealing to those darned judges, isn't it?

Now, if only I could get 'em to have a shot of tequila with me . . .
__________________
Hance - Lake Dogs Cooking Team - MiM/MBN/GBA CBJ and comp cook
Lake Sinclair, GA (strategically about an hour from everywhere)
Lake Dogs is online now   Reply With Quote


Thanks from: --->
Unread 07-10-2013, 03:13 PM   #89
TheJackal
Full Fledged Farker

 
TheJackal's Avatar
 
Join Date: 09-14-09
Location: Flemington, NJ
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
Actually, I used it to make a point. Remember the commercial for sauce and the tag line was "Made in New York City?, Git a Rope". The intent was to say that the sauce, I think Pace, was real downhome and others were just imitator wanabes.

It just illustrates that other factors, to include public preception, come into the equation of what makes good bbq for each person and region and could be as simple as "what is acceptable everywhere." While not being the best, it is the acceptable NORM.
Yes. That is the commercial I thought of while reading this thread. It is a Pace Picante salsa commercial. Pace is a brand owned by Campbell's which is based in Camden, NJ. I always got a kick out of that.
__________________
Greg, Smokopolis BBQ -- http://www.facebook.com/SmokopolisBBQ
Yoder YS640
BBQ Guru Onyx
TheJackal is offline   Reply With Quote


Unread 07-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #90
Slamdunkpro
is Blowin Smoke!

 
Slamdunkpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: 02-27-07
Location: Northern VA
Downloads: 0
Uploads: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Bringle
Iíve seen it in the KCBS circuits, but I donít see it in the MBM [Memphis] circuit. The MBM folks seem to have more laid-back party get-together kind of time, whereas the KCBS guys seem to be more me and my wife against the world, **** everybody else. Quiet time at 10 p.m. The first time I did a KCBS competition, they almost threw me out four times because I didnít know what the hell quiet time was. I was like, "What do you mean quiet time in a barbecue competition? What kind of bull**** is that? Itís about staying up and having a good time. Weíre getting our second keg delivered here."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Parker View Post
This has got to be the furthest statement from the truth I have ever read about competition BBQ especially KCBS events that I have been to.

I have watched competitors give other competitors rubs, sauces, meat, injections, wood, charcoal, knives, park their trailer, make their boxes, change their tire, wake them up, start their fire, and fix their truck!

We have potlucks that rival most 5 star restaurants and share all of our food with our neighbors.
If someone has to have quiet time explained four times.....
__________________
Aporkalypse Now Competition BBQ team
Thanks to our sponsors: Wusthof Trident USA & Creekstone Farms
Spicewine Tandem - "The Beast"

Brinkman modified upright, Weber Kettle(s); Meadow Creek Pr-24, Super Stealth Mode black & Night Vision Red Thermopens
-----------------
MABA - (Mid Atlantic BBQ Association) President
KCBS Certified Judge - #23289
Slamdunkpro is offline   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Loading



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:45 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise v2.6.0 Beta 4 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
2003 -2012 © BBQ-Brethren Inc. All rights reserved. All Content and Flaming Pig Logo are registered and protected under U.S and International Copyright and Trademarks. Content Within this Website Is Property of BBQ Brethren Inc. Reproduction or alteration is strictly prohibited.
no new posts