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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Old 01-30-2006, 04:07 PM   #1
smokincracker
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Thumbs down Inconsistent Judging

The judging was real inconsistent at this last contest in Lakeland.
Example:
My Brisket
989 / 655 / 868 / 866 / 999 / 666
For every turn-in box I have 6s and 9s for each sub-category it’s a damn conspiracy.
I have been doing this long enough now to know this sucks also since my boxes were real good.
The Brisket above was spectacular by the way!!

In comparison my score sheets from FBA contests are very consistent.
I spoke to a seasoned FBA judge and cook that took the KCBS judging class the night before and his comments to me painted a very bleak picture about what to expect. He was right!
I would love to see some more consistent judging at the next KCBS contest.
Sorry for the bi#@chin
Just pisses me off.
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Old 01-30-2006, 04:22 PM   #2
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I feel your pain brother.....saw similar scoring at Bass Pro last year.....I took it personal....took me almost 6 weeks to shake it off....I kept questioning what i did wrong or different....pork and brisket had always been our strong suits...it wasn't what I did, I just hit bad tables........hope it's my last bad tables for awhile though!!
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:13 PM   #3
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You had

Five 9's
Four 8's
Seven 6's
Two 5's

In taste you had 8-5-6-6-9-6

I'd say you just had a couple generous judges.
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq
You had

Five 9's
Four 8's
Seven 6's
Two 5's

In taste you had 8-5-6-6-9-6

I'd say you just had a couple generous judges.

Always good to hear from the Bonesmoker!!!
Forgive me if I don't see your point in the same direction.
You always know how to make a guy feel loved.
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Old 01-30-2006, 07:22 PM   #5
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I might have a little more feeling if you didn't try to make it an FBA vs KCBS thing. They really aren't very different.
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:21 PM   #6
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Jimmy,
I can not help explain your particular scores.
Not my intent here and something I can not do.
And--not making excuses--"Just the facts"

But, here is what transpired with the Judges at LakeLand.
The Rep (Steve in this case) had 10 tables of judges. 100% Certified.
He first seperated any "signifigant others" to different tables.
He then identiifed Qualified Table Captains. I think (can not be sure) that all were KCBS Certified Table Captains. Mine was certified and he was outstanding and very professional.
He then identified all of the "first time KCBS" judges and had 11 of us to spread around. He placed one "first time KCBS" judge at 9 tables leaving one table with 2. That pair was me and another FBA Judge with some experience. She had LOTS of experience in the FBA.

All this means is that Steve tried to make the playing field as level as possible. And, he did it very well in my opinion.

From that, who knows why judges would be varying that much, except that they are people. We will never get around that! Sure wish we could.

I will not compare FBA and KCBS judging other than to say the switch is easy and just a matter of some procedural differences. My particular table at LakeLand appeared to be "reletively consistant" based on our great discussions after each round of Judging.
I saw no "wild cards" in my little 10% of the Judges.
The other 90%??? I was not there.

Sorry it did not work out for you, but Steve did his best to level it out.

TIM

ps--Have your knees recovered from the vending experience?
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Kapn
Sorry it did not work out for you, but Steve did his best to level it out.
Tim,
Thank you for the detail on how the judging room appears to have been as most "even" as possible.

We've read numerous contest results with competitors saying "WTF?", but to see that a judges room has been evened out as much as possible is really good news.

I wonder what other "balancing" has taken place at other contests some of the Brothers have judged. Sorry, might be another thread topic
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Old 01-30-2006, 08:52 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Kapn
Mine was certified and he was outstanding and very professional.
Hey Tim,
Nice to have you at the table. Thanks for the kind words. I do try....

Mark D.
QN
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Old 01-30-2006, 09:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QN
Hey Tim,
Nice to have you at the table. Thanks for the kind words. I do try....

Mark D.
QN
"He He"--I drew a "lurker" out
Fine gentleman here folks.
He just hangs around more than he posts.
A real professional Master Judge, Table Captain, and part time cook IMHO.

TIM
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Last edited by The_Kapn; 01-30-2006 at 09:54 PM..
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Old 01-30-2006, 09:58 PM   #10
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I want to say something. I want it to be positive. I've been sitting at my computer for a few minutes, but nothing comes. Brisket was your best category.

I'd love for you to expand on how that individual explained the "very bleak future" idea. I don't know much, but I know this; folks dislike change. Folks resist change. Someday I'd like to share with you the reaction I saw to a set of scores the first time a long established team cooked an ABA event. Wow, that was something. The KCBS system is different than the FBA system, even if only slightly.

Five of the top ten teams at this contest were also top ten teams of the year in 2005, and the other five weren't there.
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Old 01-31-2006, 04:56 AM   #11
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I agree with what others have said on the other forum you posted this question. If your product was overly spicy or sweet or bland, you may have two judges who loved their BBQ presented that way. The other judges must not have liked it. I think you have to cook toward's the middle to be successful. We've all had scores high and low on the same scorecard, It's a fact of life when you get 6 people trying to agree on anything.
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:18 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LostNation
I agree with what others have said on the other forum you posted this question. If your product was overly spicy or sweet or bland, you may have two judges who loved their BBQ presented that way. The other judges must not have liked it. I think you have to cook toward's the middle to be successful. We've all had scores high and low on the same scorecard, It's a fact of life when you get 6 people trying to agree on anything.
Good ideas
perhaps the middle of the road was where I needed to me.
Thanks for your comments.
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:40 AM   #13
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Unhappy

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbbq
I might have a little more feeling if you didn't try to make it an FBA vs KCBS thing. They really aren't very different.
Ray
I have cooked in 13 FBA contests on only 4 KCBS.
I was speaking from the limited experience I have developed so far.
As I said all my scores were all over the board and my cooking style has not changed and this was a first for me. This is the first time I have seen such overwhelming inconsistent scores.

I am in no way an FBA baby so don't put me in that category. Climb off your KCBS horse and relax. I cook a lot of FBA contests due to locality and convenience. This is just a hobbies for me not a political assignment. Thanks for your comments I'm not beyond self-examination.

666s or 999s / 999s or 666s
Anyway you look at it its inconsistent.
I realize to you it makes sense that the 999s are out of line. Right!

Congrats on your excellent overall finish in your home town.

Jimmy
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Kapn
Jimmy,
I can not help explain your particular scores.
Not my intent here and something I can not do.
And--not making excuses--"Just the facts"

Thanks Tim
I'll chauk it up as a fluke and move on...
good post!!


ps--Have your knees recovered from the vending experience?
Sure they feel ok this morning
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Old 01-31-2006, 06:59 AM   #15
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Jimmy,
I don't think I'm reading it wrong that you were saying that your FBA scores are always consistent while the FBA judge painted a bleak picture of KCBS judging and your scores were bad.

I've been there 100 times when my scores weren't what I had hoped for. Matter of fact it happened a couple weeks ago in your hometown at an FBA contest. I congratulated everyone and went on my way. I could have accused the FBA judges of not knowing what good BBQ was, but that would be a sore loser in my book.

I think that probably two judges liked your food and four thought it was average. I find that to be very possible. People like different things and that's why we use six judges and throw the lowest one out.

As a cook I feel it's my job to get all the judges to like my food, not the sanctioning bodies.
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