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Q-talk *ON TOPIC ONLY* QUALITY ON TOPIC discussion of Backyard BBQ, grilling, Equipment and just outdoor cookin' in general, hints, tips, tricks & techniques, success, failures... but stay on topic. And watch for that hijacking.


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Unread 03-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #16
Bludawg
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Ok Amigo this is the deal you got your cherry popped now it's time to learn how to tease that brisket until it is putty in your hands.

Your cooking at to low a temperature 180-200 is jerky making temps. You can start off low say 230 fro the first two hrs they ramp it up, You need to run your pit at 275-300 deg until that brisket probes tender Internal temps do not tell you when the meat is fully rendered and all the collagen has broken down this will not happen at temps below 220, your first result is proof of this.

This is how I cook mine it is proven and it works everytime
I light my pit and bring it to 300 deg and get a split preheating on the fire box
Then I go in and remove the brisket from the Cyro and rinse it under cool water and pat it dry
Trim all the hard fat, and thing out the fat cap to 1/4"
Apply my rub 50/50 Ksalt & med grind Black pepper
Put the brisket on the pit Fat Cap up Point to the fire box
Maintain 300 deg
At the 4 th hr I wrap in a layer of Butcher paper and go back on the pit Fat Cap up point to the fire box
At the 5.5 hr mark I start to test the flat for probe tender once it probes like butter I pull it and put it on a sheet pan and allow it to sit wrapped until the brisket s temp drops to 150 this can take up to 3 hrs.
Now it is time to enjoy a giggly moist tender & juicy Piece of Bovine Love


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Unread 03-11-2013, 09:43 AM   #17
Andrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny_Crunch View Post
The magic wont happen in a tough piece of meat until you break it down by getting it around 200. Same concept as pulled pork from a pork butt.
i do make an amazing pulled pork! i just didnt want to try a brisket until i fully knew my smoker and smoked enough meats to get some fundamentals down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HankB View Post
You will often get what seem like mixed messages if you study the methods practiced by various board members here. That's because there is not always one way to smoke any particular meat. You have to examine the various methods and try them out to see what you prefer. The results are generally successful but not identical.

In this case it seems that the results were not fully successful. I hope you enjoyed the brisket nevertheless.

As to how more time/higher temp will produce more tender meat, one of the reactions that takes place during cooking is that connective tissue in the meat fibers softens and dissolves at a certain temperature. You are correct that if you try to get to that temperature too fast, you risk drying the meat. However if you do not reach the threshold temperature to dissolve the connective tissue, the meat will remain, uh... firm. As far as moisture goes, there is a lot locked up in the muscle fibers. Beef brisket contains about 71% water so you have a surprising amount to work with. If you don't do anything too extreme, you will not drive enough off to make the meat dry. At the point where you removed the brisket, there was still plenty there locked in the fibers that would be released as the meat continues to cook.

You have tried one strategy and found it not to produce results that please you so I'm happy to see that you are ready to try something different.
this makes complete sense! and for 1, i dont get discouraged, i try things first to see what doesnt work so i can exclude that from further processes!

its the fine line i have to ride, between too hot and not hot enough.

thanks guys!
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Unread 03-11-2013, 09:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bludawg View Post
Ok Amigo this is the deal you got your cherry popped now it's time to learn how to tease that brisket until it is putty in your hands.

Your cooking at to low a temperature 180-200 is jerky making temps. You can start off low say 230 fro the first two hrs they ramp it up, You need to run your pit at 275-300 deg until that brisket probes tender Internal temps do not tell you when the meat is fully rendered and all the collagen has broken down this will not happen at temps below 220, your first result is proof of this.

This is how I cook mine it is proven and it works everytime
I light my pit and bring it to 300 deg and get a split preheating on the fire box
Then I go in and remove the brisket from the Cyro and rinse it under cool water and pat it dry
Trim all the hard fat, and thing out the fat cap to 1/4"
Apply my rub 50/50 Ksalt & med grind Black pepper
Put the brisket on the pit Fat Cap up Point to the fire box
Maintain 300 deg
At the 4 th hr I wrap in a layer of Butcher paper and go back on the pit Fat Cap up point to the fire box
At the 5.5 hr mark I start to test the flat for probe tender once it probes like butter I pull it and put it on a sheet pan and allow it to sit wrapped until the brisket s temp drops to 150 this can take up to 3 hrs.
Now it is time to enjoy a giggly moist tender & juicy Piece of Bovine Love



Trim all the hard fat, and thing out the fat cap to 1/4"
Apply my rub 50/50 Ksalt & med grind Black pepper
Put the brisket on the pit Fat Cap up Point to the fire box
Fat Cap up point to the fire box

these things i did do.

its starting to make more sense, at the higher temps the meat breaks down, so me running low wont break down the meat properly.

i always left a probe in to contantly monitor the temps, i have a fear of over probing and making a swiss cheese and lose even more moisture, but im guessing yall will tell me that isnt the case LOL!
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Unread 03-11-2013, 09:51 AM   #19
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Andrew. Less than 4 months ago, I was exactly where you are. Exactly. Asking all of the same questions and getting the same advice. I listened to what I was told, and now Brisket is the family favorite.

Here is a short video of my Brisket from Saturday.



The family loved it.

Here is the thread I started last October. Check out the advice I was given there.

Finally I gave in and cooked the Brisket at 270F according to Pitmaster T's Edict

Cooking at 270F seemed counter intuitive since the whole reason why I got a smoker was for slow and low cooking, but trust the results.. it works!
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Unread 03-11-2013, 09:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thegizzard View Post
Andrew. Less than 4 months ago, I was exactly where you are. Exactly. Asking all of the same questions and getting the same advice. I listened to what I was told, and now Brisket is the family favorite.

Here is a short video of my Brisket from Saturday.

http://youtu.be/SUKjvgiTyGw


The family loved it.

Here is the thread I started last October. Check out the advice I was given there.

Finally I gave in and cooked the Brisket at 270F according to Pitmaster T's Edict

Cooking at 270F seemed counter intuitive since the whole reason why I got a smoker was for slow and low cooking, but trust the results.. it works!
this is exactly what is going thru my head! to the T!

nice!! and LOL to having a kid on the counter, just like at my house, always wanting to see what dad is doing!

looks fantastic!

looking back thru my pics, i have determined, i maintained moisture but not tenderness, which would backup what yall are saying!

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Unread 03-11-2013, 10:50 AM   #21
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Lets talk about bark and probing.

Bark: the few briskets i have helped in on with my friend the bark wasnt dark. and we went 6hrs, whats the trick?

Probing, i see alot of people talking about the flat, i was probing the the points since its a thicker piece of meat. would make sense to judge the temps on the thinner piece so it doesnt over cook. thoughts?
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Unread 03-11-2013, 10:55 AM   #22
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Ignore the point, anyone can cook a tender point. Get the flat right and the point takes care of itself.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 10:57 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speers90 View Post
Ignore the point, anyone can cook a tender point. Get the flat right and the point takes care of itself.

thats what has just starting clicking in my head as of about 15 minutes ago, im so mad now, i want to retry this LOL!
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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:13 AM   #24
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Buy a whole packer. Trim off hard fat. Rub. Smoke at 250+. Start probing for tenderness around 195*. Take off when it probes like butter.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:14 AM   #25
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Forget about length of time....its done when it probes like butter. Estimate about 1.25 to 1.5 hours a pound at 250* to ball park your finish time. Less the hotter you go.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #26
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the one i did was a 12lb.

what are you saying is "packer"? are those the 14lb+?
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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:37 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
thanks, but i think if i would have left it in there any longer it would have been a board.

WRONG!!!!!!!!!!! You are like many of us... a victim of the brisket PSYCHE or rope a dope. Here is my prescription...


watch all that....



then all this




same brisket


Since this is THE most common error for newbees to brisket ... and some who have thought brisket needed to be sliced thin for years because they didn't know.... and those who refuse to try the Night Train... I really need to make this an official brisket video












now bow to the genius of brisket

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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:48 AM   #28
Bludawg
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You get good bark from smoke particles collecting on the surface and mixing with the rendering fat & collagen, and the natural sugars in the meat caramelizing( the sugar cookie). the hotter you run the better the bark. Contrary to popular belief you don't need sugar in a rub or a mustard slather to get good bark.
Unless I'm cooking ribs I use Salt & Pepper and I never have a bark problem. Foiling to early or using foil will kill the bark. If your gonna wrap and you like your bark use butcher paper/ its porous it maintains a moist environment close to the surface but because it is porous it allow for evaporation unlike foil. You get the benefit of foil without all the drawbacks.

Brisket S&P Post oak Butcher paper cooked at 300
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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:59 AM   #29
Andrew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bludawg View Post
You get good bark from smoke particles collecting on the surface and mixing with the rendering fat & collagen, and the natural sugars in the meat caramelizing( the sugar cookie). the hotter you run the better the bark. Contrary to popular belief you don't need sugar in a rub or a mustard slather to get good bark.
Unless I'm cooking ribs I use Salt & Pepper and I never have a bark problem. Foiling to early or using foil will kill the bark. If your gonna wrap and you like your bark use butcher paper/ its porous it maintains a moist environment close to the surface but because it is porous it allow for evaporation unlike foil. You get the benefit of foil without all the drawbacks.

Brisket S&P Post oak Butcher paper cooked at 300
so when you wrap how often do you check the temp of the flat to know when its fully done? or are you all for times not temps?
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Unread 03-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
so when you wrap how often do you check the temp of the flat to know when its fully done? or are you all for times not temps?
Brisket is done when it probes tender, think hot knife through butter. It's not done when it reaches a certain internal temp or certain amount of time. You can start checking for tenderness in the 190s. I personally start checking around 195* and find most of my briskets are probe tender in the low 200's range - sometimes less, sometimes more. This is what makes brisket such a challenge to get right. When you nail it, the payoff is well worth the effort.

BTW a dark bark could also be result of bad fire management, you want nice clean smoke coming from your exhaust. That's a whole other thread.
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