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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 03-10-2013, 10:55 PM   #1
Atlasman
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Default Trying to conquer my nemesis (brisket)...temp or feel??

So I'll just be blunt.........my brisket is low grade dog food.

I've tried hot and fast like Myron......turned into a charcoal briquette.

I've tried painfully low and slow for as much as 16 hours......dry and tough.

I have injected....marinated....mopped and misted...foil and no.


ALWAYS DRY and tough.........lay a slice across your finger and it hardly bends at all.

Getting very frustrated.

I have cooked by temp and feel pulling anywhere from 190 to 205 and rested up to 4 hours...........don't know why I am missing so badly.

I have a decent flavor profile that scored well but I got killed on tenderness.


Lil' Help???

I have an XL big green egg and a 22" WSM both controlled by gurus for spot on temps.


Are you guys pulling by feel or temp??

I haven't cooked the best cuts of meat to date ( best I could find) but I ordered 3 big pack from snake river which will be here Wednesday.

Could it be as simple as meat quality??


Are you guys cooking wagyu to different temps then say "prime"??


Sorry for the ramble and please know I have searched and researched this topic extensively........not just looking for secrets, I am nearing the end of my BBQ rope with this cut.


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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:00 PM   #2
Bourbon Barrel BBQ
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Tell us your normal time and temp process and when you wrap.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:06 PM   #3
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Don't dare cook up a Wagyu until you have a regular brisket down. Yes, the quality will get you a better end product but I would guess this isn't the problem. I suspect you haven't been only cooking up select packers.
Are you cooking packers or just flats? I get a better end product with packers.
What temp are you starting to check for resistance? I usually will start at 190 and then every 20 minutes until the flat probes with no resistance.
Maybe some pics of your slices can let us know a bit more about the texture.
I also assume you are cutting across the grain.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourbon Barrel BBQ View Post
Tell us your normal time and temp process and when you wrap.
To expand on the above
Inject/Rub?
Pit temp?
Wrap temp?
What do you put in your wrap?
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:27 PM   #5
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you are why i came up with the night train

continue without it at your own peril




select
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrillsGoneWild View Post
Don't dare cook up a Wagyu until you have a regular brisket down.
I would have to agree. Wagyu is too expensive to experiment on. It's a different monster than a "regular" brisket.

If you think the quality of meat is a factor, try to find the best packer you can. Restaurant Depot carries Angus briskets that I have had plenty of success with. If you don't have one nearby, try to find a butcher that's local.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:37 PM   #7
Atlasman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourbon Barrel BBQ View Post
Tell us your normal time and temp process and when you wrap.
I try to foil by look rather then temp. Once the bark sets up after maybe 6-8 hours is a good ballpark. From there I have pulled at temp and feel with equally lousy results.

Temp when I foil is probably 160-170 in flat near point.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:40 PM   #8
Atlasman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrillsGoneWild View Post
Don't dare cook up a Wagyu until you have a regular brisket down. Yes, the quality will get you a better end product but I would guess this isn't the problem. I suspect you haven't been only cooking up select packers.
Are you cooking packers or just flats? I get a better end product with packers.
What temp are you starting to check for resistance? I usually will start at 190 and then every 20 minutes until the flat probes with no resistance.
Maybe some pics of your slices can let us know a bit more about the texture.
I also assume you are cutting across the grain.
I am cooking packers in the 15-17lb avg size range. I am cutting against the grain.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:45 PM   #9
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I have to say you are probably not pulling at the right time. The feel is missing for you. You cannot go by temperature. You have to go by feel, whether with a probe, or with a learned ability to feel when the meat has given up the toughness.

The Nightrain brisket exercise is a good way to feel what is right.
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Unread 03-10-2013, 11:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Bobby View Post
To expand on the above
Inject/Rub?
Pit temp?
Wrap temp?
What do you put in your wrap?

I have injected with everything from beef broth to melted butter to butchers

Rub is smoking guns hot, Plowboys bold, trim tab pig powder, 3 eyes or some other commercial rub I feel like trying.

Pit temp has been as low as 225 and up to 350 for Myron's run.

Wrap usually gets mop or mist liquid I used that day.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 12:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlasman View Post
Wrap usually gets mop or mist liquid I used that day.
I may be reading your comment not as you have intended, but wondering if you're putting enough liquid in the wrap. How much are you putting in - 2oz, 4, 6, 8 more?
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Unread 03-11-2013, 12:17 AM   #12
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I run flats only at 275 and have had great results. I've been doing it by feel though, so can't tell you what temps I'm hitting. I just foil it when it looks right and probe until I feel it's tender. I've overshot a couple of times and had pulled brisket, but never been dried out.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 12:39 AM   #13
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We wrap once we get the bark looking the way we want. We pull them off the cooker once our Thermapen slides in the way we want. We never go by the temp reading, just the feel.

Also, fat striation throughout the choice (or better) flat is a must for us. If we can find one packer out of 20 that we think is good enough...it's a minor miracle.

Brisket is the toughest to dial in, IMO.

Best of luck.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 12:49 AM   #14
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Default Re: Trying to conquer my nemesis (brisket)...temp or feel??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitmaster T View Post
you are why i came up with the night train

continue without it at your own peril




select
It sure got me going in the right direction.

http://www.bbq-brethren.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=57815
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Unread 03-11-2013, 05:30 AM   #15
Atlasman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Bobby View Post
I may be reading your comment not as you have intended, but wondering if you're putting enough liquid in the wrap. How much are you putting in - 2oz, 4, 6, 8 more?

I'd say 6-8 ounces is about right.
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