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Competition BBQ *On Topic Only* Discussion regarding all aspects of Competition BBQ. Experiences competing or visiting, questions, getting started, Equipment, announcements of events, Results, Reviews, Planning, etc. Questions here will be responded to with competition BBQ in mind.


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Unread 02-11-2013, 10:09 AM   #1
dosvans
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Default No More Comment Cards ???

Just took a Table Captain Class this past weekend, and heard something that was a bit concerning. The instructors of the class, who are also KCBS reps, told us that the use of comment cards will be eliminated with the use of the new KCBS scoring system when fully implemented. From what I understood, the use of the new scoring system will not allow for a comment card to be associated back to a team. Didn't totally understand the logic to be honest. Has anyone else heard this? As a cook team, I would hate for comment cards to go away even if not that many are given out.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 10:55 AM   #2
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As a cook I value comment cards when filled out with valid observations/constructive criticism and NOT telling me how to cook.
As a judge I think that there is value to the cards as long as judges put some thought into what they observed/tasted/felt and not trying to tell cooks how to cook.

I still think that going to a scoring system where the judge must justify their scores given with comments on each aspect of the judging process would be MOST beneficial.

Hadn't heard about Comment Cards going away yet.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 02:47 PM   #3
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That would be a shame. As a new team, getting a number with no comments means jack. Give me the feedback so I can get better.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #4
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At one time, the story was that in an attempt to keep the double blind system in tact, there would be no way to write a comment card and figure out the final team. We had a conversation about it here, and I suggested two or three approaches, but nothing ever came of them. I think there was more discussion, but no movement. I've heard rumours that it's a deliberate act to get rid of them, and that could explain it, but that's just rumours. If this is a concern of yours, I'd suggest that you eMail the KCBS BOD and let them know. The head of the KSBScore commitee is on the board, and having the rest of the board know that it concerns you will be good too.

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Unread 02-11-2013, 02:55 PM   #5
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That's the first I've heard about this, assuming that it's true. If true, it would be a real shame to take away a judge's ability to provide constructive feedback.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 03:38 PM   #6
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I'm a judge and have taken the table captain class and didn't hear they were removing the comment cards
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Unread 02-11-2013, 04:12 PM   #7
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Just a thought but maybe we should ask the BOD members that are Brethren as well. Then we dont assume anything. Then we will know for sure and can maybe hear feedback. This may have been something that just indeed happened and Dosvans was told accurately, but it seems I have read this very thing for a couple of years now.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 04:22 PM   #8
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I'm just talking out loud here (and maybe outta turn), but I think that the Brethren who are directors appreciate the option of officially chiming in to KCBS threads as they feel comfortable. I think any time that they do it is great, but "official" stuff should go through official channels, and these guys guys have the right to be more than the positions...that said, I'd love to know the current status of this.

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Unread 02-11-2013, 05:07 PM   #9
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The comment cards were brought up at the rep meeting at the convention that they would probably not be used because they would not be compatible with the new program. Today, I heard the discussion is not over. So it sounds as if the BOD hasn't made any final decision or may find a new way to implement them.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 05:25 PM   #10
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I am an old person (70) who learned to program in college and turned in the fortran cards at the window and came back for the results which were usually wrong and tons of paper. I have several patents in communications, was a part of the team that refrubished the ENIAC, and I still fail to understand the limitations and slowness and less than robust software that we in KCBS are currently paying for and not getting. Maybe some of you younger generation hot shots can help me out here.

I truely believe that limitations are manufactured or dull programmers and dullers managers.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 05:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmprantz View Post
I'm just talking out loud here (and maybe outta turn), but I think that the Brethren who are directors appreciate the option of officially chiming in to KCBS threads as they feel comfortable. I think any time that they do it is great, but "official" stuff should go through official channels, and these guys guys have the right to be more than the positions...that said, I'd love to know the current status of this.

dmp
You are absolutely right and maybe I should have wrote my response different. What I meant is that until we hear from someone who knows what is going on then all of this is just an assumption that has been talked about before. Dosvans heard it at a class this past weekend so he may know something others of us dont and once i hear from someone "official" then I will form an opinion.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 05:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dosvans View Post
Just took a Table Captain Class this past weekend, and heard something that was a bit concerning. The instructors of the class, who are also KCBS reps, told us that the use of comment cards will be eliminated with the use of the new KCBS scoring system when fully implemented. From what I understood, the use of the new scoring system will not allow for a comment card to be associated back to a team. Didn't totally understand the logic to be honest. Has anyone else heard this? As a cook team, I would hate for comment cards to go away even if not that many are given out.
Just repeating what I heard from a BOD member and now I'm hearing different today.
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Unread 02-11-2013, 06:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
Maybe some of you younger generation hot shots can help me out here.

I truely believe that limitations are manufactured or dull programmers and dullers managers.
My understanding is that it has to do, not with the skill of the developers, but with the business processes put in place by the product owners. In the current system, each team has two numbers: The public one that goes on the box, and the private one that the judges see. When a judge fills out a comment card it is for the private number, and some one must associate that with the appropriate score sheet.

In the KCBScore, from what I have been told, that process is somewhat different. In an effort to keep the double blind system in tact, the "private" number is not printed on the score sheet, so there is no (easy) way to find the correct score sheet on which to affix the comment cards.

There are, of course, ways around this.

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Unread 02-11-2013, 07:20 PM   #14
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Check out the PNWBA score system, uses a bar code system. I can't read bar code without help and I don't know many that can. They give a sheet of bar code labels to the cook and he attaches one by his name to the master sheet.

The cook places a label to each of his boxes prior to tunr in. At turn in the box bar code number is scanned and the computer gives the box a human readable number. Blind as a bat all the way through and only when the final print out is done does the rep even know who is who. This is just one simple solution and totally removes the appearance of not so blind numbers that are currently used. Most of us who judge and cook, by knowing what folk turn in, figure out the number being added system in short order
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Unread 02-11-2013, 07:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke'n Ice View Post
Check out the PNWBA score system, uses a bar code system.
I have personally made that suggestion to multiple cook and KCBS directors, past and present. Every one thinks it's a great idea, and I've had directors tell me they were going to look into it. Haven't heard back since, but I agree with you. I was just playing with one of our cool, affordable USB barcode scanners at work today (We're rolling out several next week). I believe the new system makes it harder to guess the alt-id.

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